Luger DWM #887

[iksa]

Dear Experts,

My name is Janne and I am writing from Finland. I decided to write this forum because I believe that some of You may have a some deep knowledge that I am interested. My deepest apologies if I have selected a wrong sub forum for this thread.

My father died recently and one thing he left behind is a Luger pistol with markings DWM 887. My father owned this pistol with legal license and before that it belonged to my grandfather (officer in Finnish army in WWII). Now the pistol is physically safe kept by Finnish police officer. Due to the tight gun laws in Finland, it is very high likely that the pistol will be melted (or deactivated). I cannot apply a normal license because it is obvious that this gun has not nothing do to with sport or hunting (at least the police officers think so).

But what I can and will do, I can try to get a "memorial license" for the pistol. Not for shooting or not for buying an ammunition; only to upkeep the history. But this kind of license is licensed quite rarely; one must have good justifications; "nice to have" is definitely not enough.

So, for my application, I try to collect as much information as possible; where it comes from, where it has been, why it is important for me and my family etc.

I believe that You may could know something about the history of this gun, for example something like: year of manufacturing (before year 1908?), place of manufacturing (Karlsruhe?), how many those were fabricated by DWM (900 000?)? Any information would be useful.

Some poor mobile phone images (sorry that I can't provide here pictures with better focus):
http://jikonen.pp.fi/Luger/

Thank You for Your assistance;
Janne
Finland

[Edward Tinker]

Janne, welcome to the forum.

Is there a letter in front of the frame, under the serial number?

Without a date stamp on the top, we need to know more information.

There are luger collectors in Finland, not sure when they visited here last.

Manufacturer should be DWM (I have to look it up to spell it write) - made prior to 1930 - that is about when Mauser took over

Could be a Finnish contract or just purchased from DWM

While waiting for others to join in, do an advanced search on the word finnish and dwm

[Ben M.]

the holster is nice and unusual.

[alanint]

Janne, I don't undertand. My good friend Panu Kolju, who lives in Finland, owns belt fed machineguns, fully automatic "assault rifles" such as AK47s and various other weaponry.

Are you sure you are in a position to lose this Luger? Would you like me to introduce you to Panu and maybe he can help save this pistol ?

[iksa]

Hi All

Edward: Thank You for Your excellent questions about what details should be checked for further discussion. I contacted the police department and asked more especially about markings. I requested also more detailed photos. Please see:

http://jikonen.pp.fi/Luger/2/

- No letter in front of the frame (under the serial number) but letter B under the barrel (not visible on photos).
- Date stamp on the top cannot be found
- If Finnish contract, then known as M23 and SA stamp under the serial should be seen (at least according to some sites I found when searching Luger history in Finland). So maybe not the case here.

alanint: Maybe I was too dramatic to say that the gun will be melted. I can always sell it to someone who has (like Panu Koljo) better possibilities to get license even for shooting with this gun. If one have a multiple licenses already and proved track record your hobby with the guns, it is much easier to get license for a new gun. Personally, I don't have a license(s) and I have not been a member in a shooting/hunting clubs for years, so normal license for a hand gun is not realistic. If my application is rejected then I save the gun by selling it; of course, then I will loose it which is sad, because it has a lot of personal value for me due it's history in our Family. But if application is accepted, I am pretty confident that I can provide a proper and safe storage conditions for Her for next 70 years or so...

[Douglas Jr.]

Janne,
Welcome to the forum.
Be sure that folks here will do their best to help you to keep your father's Luger with the family.
But... we need more pictures.

For instance: a clear view from the right side to see if there any proofs there, clear view from proofs and serial numbers in frame and below the barrel ... oh, and what is the caliber: 7,65 mm Luger or 9mm Parabellum?

Until now, I see an odd pistols: made by DWM and originally an Artillery model that had its barrel and sights changed, fitted with the relived sear bar (introduced in 1916). In my opinion this gun went through some kind of refurbishing which is common to Finnish Lugers (hence the lack of date over the chamber).

All the best,
Douglas

[iksa]

Hi All

Ok, I got two more pictures, under the barrel and right side.

http://jikonen.pp.fi/Luger/2/PA080314.JPG
http://jikonen.pp.fi/Luger/2/PA110328.JPG

Douglas Jr: Thanks for your reply. Some details/further questions

- Caliber is 7.65
- What the letter "b" means?
- What detail refer to artillery model?

If Douglas Jr is correct about somekind of refurbishment, then it may be from the ~1500pcs lot to Finland delivered by Mauser between 1930-1930; at least some of the pistols were assembled from DWM parts.

Thanks about all Your help. I must admit that history of weaponry is quite interesting; especially when started more or less from zero.

Janne

[rhuff]

Janne,

The "b" letter on the frame is part of the total serial number.

[mystical_tutor]

Janne;

I noticed that your questions weren't all answered, I'll do my best, though my knowledge, like me is kinda dated.... LOL

Cal 7.65 mm was used mostly for commercial and 1900-19?? contracts. 9mm was considered by most countries as the military round and most guns built for military use or export were in 9mm, at least after the start of WWI (some exceptions to this of course, just like all things Luger).

The letter with the serial number is because the used a 4 number series with military Lugers that repeated itself. like 1 to 9999. Then they started over with 1a to 9999a and in this case 1b to 9999b with yours being the 887th luger in the 3d series or the 20885 th Luger that year. Commercial numbers for DWM ran consecutively from 1 into 5 digits.

I would assume that the deduction of an artillery background is based on the notch you see at the very front of your chamber, just behind the barrel. That was needed for the fitting of an artillery rear sight. A different hypothesis could be that the receiver is from a WWI Erfurt Luger that usually had those notches even when not used on artillery Lugers. In any case the gun was re-barreled to 7.65 for some reason.

Keep digging. It is a lot of fun.

Gary

[Douglas Jr.]

Janne,

I would say that this pistol was part of the 1923 contract between DWM (by then renamed BKIW) and the Finnish Army. In Finland the pistol was adopted with the designation M/23, all of them in 7,65mm Luger caliber. I can't remember the exact number of pistols delivered (5000 ??) but I remember reading somewhere that many were built with stockpiled parts from World War I (what would explain the Artillery Model receiver on your pistol). DWM was famous for not wasting anything...

These guns remained in service for a number of years but, by the start of the WWII (or the Winter War against Soviet Union) most had been issued to second line or home security units.

Douglas.

[hank678417]

janne i also have a dwm luger with a serial #887 no small letter year 1915 with the notch for a
art. sight. i posted the gun on this form with pic. about jan. or feb. 2008 i think?
hank678417