Still have FTF

Dave Baird · 07-04-2008, 12:53 PM

Hi friends. I'm still working with that great 1917/1920 Erfurt shooter. I bought a second WWI mag to fulfill the "rig" and hoped it would solve my odd FTF problem. It fits better in the gun than the first mag and is not twisted. It also slides in and out with ease. Unfortuantely, it doesn't seem to have solved the problem. The first and last few rounds in each mag feed fine. But, the several in the center do not. I am using Wallyworld Winchester 115gr. FMJ.

I hate to be lazy and go with a 124gr. because the 115gr. works in all my other 9mm/s just fine and I don't have any 124gr. anyhow. Tom had mentioned maybe the recoil spring was replaced and is too strong for the light load. If I can get the spring off, could I take a coil off and see what happens? Or, would that be opening another can of worms?

Thoughts??

Dave

lugerholsterrepair · 07-04-2008, 01:36 PM

Dave, I would try a MecGar mag first. Make sure you try all the possibilities before whittling away the mainspring.

I have taken a link out of a mainspring to solve a function problem and it worked. It was after a couple of frustrating days of monkeying around with the pistol chasing problems.

Mainsprings are easier to take out than you might think. I use a good strong straight steel drift to get a hold of it in the hole provided at the bottom of the mainspring guide.

You might also consider switching mainsprings to help diagnose the problem. Take two out and compare length to the good one.

Good Luck!

Jerry Burney

Dave Baird · 07-04-2008, 02:50 PM

All great suggestions, Jerry. I tried your removal technique and got the main spring out. How in the world does it fit back in that little space??

Oh my word it has a lot of strength to it!!! I had no idea it was that long and so tensil-strong! Cocking the toggle doesn't exert any effort but removing that main spring does!

This is my only Luger so I unfortuantely don't have another spring to swap. And, I should get a MecGar from Tom, but I am a cheap son of a gun. I just bought this second WWI mag to complete the rig and fix my problem. (2 fer 1 ) It really does seem like a great mag and does not occasionally jam like the first mag, it's in clean (I took it apart) shape and slides easily in and out of the gun. I'm thinking.

Glad to know removing a link won't destroy the gun, but I agree on waiting to do that. Still thinking..

Thanks Jerry. Dave

John Sabato · 07-04-2008, 10:17 PM

There is a description in the technical information pages or the general information pages that describes the procedure for removing and installing the recoil spring. There is also a Youtube video on how to do it... Once you know the secrets it's easy...

Dave Baird · 07-05-2008, 09:40 AM

Thank you, John! Maybe if I would have read that first along with Jerry's recommendations, I wouldn't be patching a dent in my basement ceiling today!!

(Honestly, I removed an Astra 600 end cap once and embedded the recoil spring in my kitchen ceiling!!

) I'm a p38-guy and we aren't used to living under so much pressure!!

I wonder if the mag springs are worn out and causing the problem? They are the original coil springs. Maybe I'll see if i can fit a P38 spring in one somehow and boost the mag's ejection rate. Doesn't that sound like it might compensate for a FTF problem too?

I'm thinking one of these three solutions:
1. lower the recoil pressure to allow the next cartridge time to set.
2. increase the cartridge pressure (124gr) to work/slow the recoil pressure.
3. get the cartridge in place (set) sooner.

What do you think? Dave

Dave Baird · 07-09-2008, 09:11 PM

I got it, fellas. I stretched the mag springs and they both work just fine. I'm going to stay with WW 115gr.FMJ and the current recoil spring. If they go back to not working, I'll look into new mag springs. But, I got it!!

Dave

lugerholsterrepair · 07-09-2008, 10:47 PM

Dave, The early magazine springs were not as strong as the later ones. Early ones were simply a round coil. Later springs filled the whole mag body and were zig zag. Apparently the Germans found something lacking in the early design.

In Luger malfunctions, I always get a reliable mag first to see if that fixes the problem.
Then work you way down the checklist untill you are patching the kitchen cieling...

Glad you got it!

Jerry Burney

Dave Baird · 07-10-2008, 11:59 AM

Thanks, Jerry. I did what you said, but did it the cheap way!!

The joke is really going to be on me when those 90+ year old springs go back to the relaxed position! ....BANG...click.....BANG....click...click!!!!

Thanks friends!

I actually had a MecGar passed-on from a friend, but gave it away with my Finn Luger when I sold it. My bad.

Michael Zeleny · 07-21-2008, 12:29 AM

So my 1906 9mm AE works like a charm with its original magazine, but gets an FTF in the middle of a MecGar.

Also, the original mag seems to be interlocking with the mag release button, so that it takes a rap on the bottom to get it out, whereas MecGars drop right out.

LugerVern · 07-21-2008, 11:34 AM

You may also want to look at the inside of your right grip, the mag button could be hanging up on a build up of varnish or bulged wood. I have seen this a couple of times so worth looking at.

As the button wares it sometimes slips under the frame in its upper position, this will then require a little effort to remove the mag.

Try shooting your gun without the right grip, then you will know for sure that is not the problem.

Just some ideas,

Vern

07-04-2008, 12:53 PM	#1
Dave Baird User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Western PA Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Still have FTF Hi friends. I'm still working with that great 1917/1920 Erfurt shooter. I bought a second WWI mag to fulfill the "rig" and hoped it would solve my odd FTF problem. It fits better in the gun than the first mag and is not twisted. It also slides in and out with ease. Unfortuantely, it doesn't seem to have solved the problem. The first and last few rounds in each mag feed fine. But, the several in the center do not. I am using Wallyworld Winchester 115gr. FMJ. I hate to be lazy and go with a 124gr. because the 115gr. works in all my other 9mm/s just fine and I don't have any 124gr. anyhow. Tom had mentioned maybe the recoil spring was replaced and is too strong for the light load. If I can get the spring off, could I take a coil off and see what happens? Or, would that be opening another can of worms? Thoughts?? Dave

07-04-2008, 01:36 PM	#2
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,857 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	Dave, I would try a MecGar mag first. Make sure you try all the possibilities before whittling away the mainspring. I have taken a link out of a mainspring to solve a function problem and it worked. It was after a couple of frustrating days of monkeying around with the pistol chasing problems. Mainsprings are easier to take out than you might think. I use a good strong straight steel drift to get a hold of it in the hole provided at the bottom of the mainspring guide. You might also consider switching mainsprings to help diagnose the problem. Take two out and compare length to the good one. Good Luck! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-04-2008, 10:17 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	There is a description in the technical information pages or the general information pages that describes the procedure for removing and installing the recoil spring. There is also a Youtube video on how to do it... Once you know the secrets it's easy... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-09-2008, 10:47 PM	#7
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,857 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	Dave, The early magazine springs were not as strong as the later ones. Early ones were simply a round coil. Later springs filled the whole mag body and were zig zag. Apparently the Germans found something lacking in the early design. In Luger malfunctions, I always get a reliable mag first to see if that fixes the problem. Then work you way down the checklist untill you are patching the kitchen cieling... Glad you got it! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-21-2008, 12:29 AM	#9
Michael Zeleny Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 525 Thanks: 129 Thanked 138 Times in 76 Posts	So my 1906 9mm AE works like a charm with its original magazine, but gets an FTF in the middle of a MecGar. Also, the original mag seems to be interlocking with the mag release button, so that it takes a rap on the bottom to get it out, whereas MecGars drop right out. __________________ Michael Zeleny@post.harvard.edu -- http://larvatus.livejournal.com/ -- 7576 Willow Glen Road, Los Angeles, CA 90046 -- 323.363.1860 All of old. Nothing else ever. Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. -- Samuel Beckett

07-04-2008, 02:50 PM	#3
Dave Baird User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Western PA Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	All great suggestions, Jerry. I tried your removal technique and got the main spring out. How in the world does it fit back in that little space?? Oh my word it has a lot of strength to it!!! I had no idea it was that long and so tensil-strong! Cocking the toggle doesn't exert any effort but removing that main spring does! This is my only Luger so I unfortuantely don't have another spring to swap. And, I should get a MecGar from Tom, but I am a cheap son of a gun. I just bought this second WWI mag to complete the rig and fix my problem. (2 fer 1 ) It really does seem like a great mag and does not occasionally jam like the first mag, it's in clean (I took it apart) shape and slides easily in and out of the gun. I'm thinking. Glad to know removing a link won't destroy the gun, but I agree on waiting to do that. Still thinking.. Thanks Jerry. Dave

07-05-2008, 09:40 AM	#5
Dave Baird User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Western PA Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you, John! Maybe if I would have read that first along with Jerry's recommendations, I wouldn't be patching a dent in my basement ceiling today!! (Honestly, I removed an Astra 600 end cap once and embedded the recoil spring in my kitchen ceiling!! ) I'm a p38-guy and we aren't used to living under so much pressure!! I wonder if the mag springs are worn out and causing the problem? They are the original coil springs. Maybe I'll see if i can fit a P38 spring in one somehow and boost the mag's ejection rate. Doesn't that sound like it might compensate for a FTF problem too? I'm thinking one of these three solutions: 1. lower the recoil pressure to allow the next cartridge time to set. 2. increase the cartridge pressure (124gr) to work/slow the recoil pressure. 3. get the cartridge in place (set) sooner. What do you think? Dave

07-09-2008, 09:11 PM	#6
Dave Baird User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Western PA Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I got it, fellas. I stretched the mag springs and they both work just fine. I'm going to stay with WW 115gr.FMJ and the current recoil spring. If they go back to not working, I'll look into new mag springs. But, I got it!! Dave

07-10-2008, 11:59 AM	#8
Dave Baird User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Western PA Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks, Jerry. I did what you said, but did it the cheap way!! The joke is really going to be on me when those 90+ year old springs go back to the relaxed position! ....BANG...click.....BANG....click...click!!!! Thanks friends! I actually had a MecGar passed-on from a friend, but gave it away with my Finn Luger when I sold it. My bad.

07-21-2008, 11:34 AM	#10
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	You may also want to look at the inside of your right grip, the mag button could be hanging up on a build up of varnish or bulged wood. I have seen this a couple of times so worth looking at. As the button wares it sometimes slips under the frame in its upper position, this will then require a little effort to remove the mag. Try shooting your gun without the right grip, then you will know for sure that is not the problem. Just some ideas, Vern