WWII Vintage Ammo

bobcam1 · 12-07-2008, 07:30 PM

Hello, all.....
I recently obtained a box of 16 rounds of WWII-era ammunition, to display with my Luger (thanks, Russ....

)
These are lacquered steel cases with iron core bullets.

Is there a point at which ammunition of this type becomes unstable or is simply a danger to someone, due to it's age?

These rounds look as though they were made yesterday, and have no outward signs of deterioration, but I thought that I would err on the side of caution, and check with the experts here.

Here are some photos of the ammo in question.

Thanks,
Bob.

Margana · 12-08-2008, 01:17 AM

As long as the cases have no corrosion, ammo will keep indefinately....HOWEVER, the primers are likely corrosive, so if you do fire them, make sure you clean the barrel with a water soluable solution (soapy water, or a mix of alcohol, water, and ammonia based "windex"....

bobcam1 · 12-08-2008, 12:31 PM

....my thanks!

Bob.

The Virginian · 12-08-2008, 12:43 PM

If I were you I would keep that WWII ammo as a collectible and not shoot it. It will go up in value and is not being made anymore. Shoot some modern ammo through your gun or make some handloads if you handload for the gun as they will not be corrosive either.

Vlim · 12-08-2008, 01:41 PM

I agree about not firing them. This stuff is not exactly rare yet, but it has a collector value.

The problem with steel cases is that they will corrode from the inside out. A steel cased round that looks pretty decent on the outside may be virtually eaten away on the inside. Some guys at the IAA cartridge collector's forum have observed this in the past.

Since they will not blow up by themselves that easily, I'd keep them stored in normal gun storage conditions.

faa is the ordnance code of DWM by the way. The cases were made by DWM, the cartridges were loaded by RWS, whose ordnance code was dnh.

bobcam1 · 12-08-2008, 06:21 PM

Thanks, everyone.....I never had any intentions of firing this ammunition. I was only concerned about it's stability, as far as keeping it out on display.

I bought it specifically for display purposes, and that's where it will stay...

)

Cheers,
Bob.

Steinar · 12-09-2008, 06:49 AM

From someone who has seen his part of western movies (hence my avatar), the trick of tossing a round on the fire.. pointing towards the place where the bad guy is sitting and then go bang-killing the bad guy and saving the day. Is not very realistic

Same goes for your vintage rounds, if they should somehow go off outside a chamber, there is not that much punch in them.

Like when I was working in the military, we had a big fire at the shooting range where empty boxes of ammunition where tossed in. Solidiers and officers standing around, warming themselves in the freezing temperatures in northern Norway. Somehow one or more boxes of .308win rounds where tossed into, many of us where hit by fragments, including me. But non of them penetrated trough our clothes, just didn't have the speed to cause any injury at all. When we later dug out the box, most of the rounds still had the bullet intact and with the shell split up.
I would think the same goes for 9mm ammunition, if it should explode outside a chamber, it could expand in all directions making it quite harmless.
One exception would be the .22 caliber rounds, heard they can bite even outside a chamber..

revolverforums · 02-01-2009, 08:28 PM

I have a ton of US army issue 45 ammo from the early 50's and shoot it all the time in one of my old army 45's and never an issue with it. Of course it was sealed in a metal 1000k round can for most of the 50 years and only exposed to moisture when opened from time to time. Boxes and ammo still looks like new and fires like new, however they do have corrosive primers so cleaning the gun right away is mandatory after firing. If I only had 16 rounds and that box I would hold on them and not even consider firing them.

George_F · 02-26-2009, 03:22 PM

Just out of curiosity, could you share how much a box of that ammo might cost? I dont think I have seen much of the 16 rd boxes on auction boards.

Thanks!

Vlim · 02-26-2009, 04:41 PM

It's not that expensive, expect to pay about twice the amount you'd pay for new commercial 9mm. Of course, there are exceptions (rarity, etc..), but as a general ball park figure it should be ok.

Lugerdoc · 02-27-2009, 08:10 AM

One caution if shooting the WW2 ammo with black painted bullets: this is steel armour peircing and not easy on bores or metal back stops. Learned that the hard way, TH

bobcam1 · 02-27-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George_F

Just out of curiosity, could you share how much a box of that ammo might cost? I dont think I have seen much of the 16 rd boxes on auction boards.

Thanks!

I paid 25.00 per box for the boxes that I have....

Cheers,
Bob.

Hikingman · 02-27-2009, 02:36 PM

Hang on to it, I'm currently seeking a black 'iron under' or other single cartridges for display, and only seem to find full boxes fs.

Thanks for sharing photos.

George_F · 02-27-2009, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lugerdoc

One caution if shooting the WW2 ammo with black painted bullets: this is steel armour peircing and not easy on bores or metal back stops. Learned that the hard way, TH

Quick note, I think any German 9mm ammo after 1944 has the iron core (m E - mit Eisenkern) but no longer had the black tip.

But its sintered iron - compressed powdered iron. No direct experience on how hard it is but as always I will defer to those with direct experience.

12-07-2008, 07:30 PM	#1
bobcam1 User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 92 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	WWII Vintage Ammo Hello, all..... I recently obtained a box of 16 rounds of WWII-era ammunition, to display with my Luger (thanks, Russ....) These are lacquered steel cases with iron core bullets. Is there a point at which ammunition of this type becomes unstable or is simply a danger to someone, due to it's age? These rounds look as though they were made yesterday, and have no outward signs of deterioration, but I thought that I would err on the side of caution, and check with the experts here. Here are some photos of the ammo in question. Thanks, Bob.

12-08-2008, 12:43 PM	#4
The Virginian User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Potomac Falls, Virginia USA Posts: 107 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	If I were you I would keep that WWII ammo as a collectible and not shoot it. It will go up in value and is not being made anymore. Shoot some modern ammo through your gun or make some handloads if you handload for the gun as they will not be corrosive either. __________________ All my C&R guns are shooters

12-08-2008, 06:21 PM	#6
bobcam1 User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 92 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks, everyone.....I never had any intentions of firing this ammunition. I was only concerned about it's stability, as far as keeping it out on display. I bought it specifically for display purposes, and that's where it will stay...) Cheers, Bob.

12-09-2008, 06:49 AM	#7
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	From someone who has seen his part of western movies (hence my avatar), the trick of tossing a round on the fire.. pointing towards the place where the bad guy is sitting and then go bang-killing the bad guy and saving the day. Is not very realistic Same goes for your vintage rounds, if they should somehow go off outside a chamber, there is not that much punch in them. Like when I was working in the military, we had a big fire at the shooting range where empty boxes of ammunition where tossed in. Solidiers and officers standing around, warming themselves in the freezing temperatures in northern Norway. Somehow one or more boxes of .308win rounds where tossed into, many of us where hit by fragments, including me. But non of them penetrated trough our clothes, just didn't have the speed to cause any injury at all. When we later dug out the box, most of the rounds still had the bullet intact and with the shell split up. I would think the same goes for 9mm ammunition, if it should explode outside a chamber, it could expand in all directions making it quite harmless. One exception would be the .22 caliber rounds, heard they can bite even outside a chamber.. __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

02-27-2009, 08:10 AM	#11
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	One caution if shooting the WW2 ammo with black painted bullets: this is steel armour peircing and not easy on bores or metal back stops. Learned that the hard way, TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-08-2008, 01:17 AM	#2
Margana User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Portland, OR Metro Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	As long as the cases have no corrosion, ammo will keep indefinately....HOWEVER, the primers are likely corrosive, so if you do fire them, make sure you clean the barrel with a water soluable solution (soapy water, or a mix of alcohol, water, and ammonia based "windex"....

12-08-2008, 12:31 PM	#3
bobcam1 User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 92 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	....my thanks! Bob.

12-08-2008, 01:41 PM	#5
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	I agree about not firing them. This stuff is not exactly rare yet, but it has a collector value. The problem with steel cases is that they will corrode from the inside out. A steel cased round that looks pretty decent on the outside may be virtually eaten away on the inside. Some guys at the IAA cartridge collector's forum have observed this in the past. Since they will not blow up by themselves that easily, I'd keep them stored in normal gun storage conditions. faa is the ordnance code of DWM by the way. The cases were made by DWM, the cartridges were loaded by RWS, whose ordnance code was dnh.

02-01-2009, 08:28 PM	#8
revolverforums Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 23 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have a ton of US army issue 45 ammo from the early 50's and shoot it all the time in one of my old army 45's and never an issue with it. Of course it was sealed in a metal 1000k round can for most of the 50 years and only exposed to moisture when opened from time to time. Boxes and ammo still looks like new and fires like new, however they do have corrosive primers so cleaning the gun right away is mandatory after firing. If I only had 16 rounds and that box I would hold on them and not even consider firing them.

02-26-2009, 03:22 PM	#9
George_F User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 30 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Just out of curiosity, could you share how much a box of that ammo might cost? I dont think I have seen much of the 16 rd boxes on auction boards. Thanks!

02-26-2009, 04:41 PM	#10
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	It's not that expensive, expect to pay about twice the amount you'd pay for new commercial 9mm. Of course, there are exceptions (rarity, etc..), but as a general ball park figure it should be ok.

02-27-2009, 02:36 PM	#13
Hikingman New User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hang on to it, I'm currently seeking a black 'iron under' or other single cartridges for display, and only seem to find full boxes fs. Thanks for sharing photos.