Municipal Police marking - Page 2

policeluger · 07-27-2004, 01:06 AM

td...I have sent you a PM.

thunderdawg · 07-27-2004, 05:14 PM

PL,
PM back at you.

ken d · 07-27-2004, 05:53 PM

Thunderdawg:
Costanzo,World of Lugers,item 61a, defines the Sunburst over S as "1929-1932 late Police proof. The initial S represents Sonderpolizei." Hard to tell if this is the proof on yours without pics.
I have no pic capability on my old computer.

Regards Ken D

thunderdawg · 07-27-2004, 07:59 PM

To all,
Just took a few dozen pix. Will attempt to boil them down to a few to post to show: serial and suffix markings on barrel and receiver, magazine base markings, STARK marking on one mag, and the proof marks on toggle and receiver. Shooting pix with a digital cam is a whole new process compared to film. But you all knew that. Cheers.

Edward Tinker · 07-27-2004, 08:49 PM

I would like to see all the pics if you are interested in sending them to me.

You could send them in a couple of e-mails if you don't want them to clog up both of our e-mail boxes.

Ed

thunderdawg · 08-01-2004, 11:27 PM

Whew, I have 12 pix that cover the markings, plus many other duplicates. They have been edited to reduce the size, images range from 51KB to 126KB, and are in Mozilla JPEG format. Not wanting to run afoul of forum protocols, if I copied these 12 pix to the server and did the copy and paste to another message (not sure about the copy and paste part?), will that be ok?

And to Ed, if you would like, I can copy all the pix to a CD and mail to you. The full files range from about 250KB to 350KB. They would be subdivided in folders as to subject for viewing ease.

Edward Tinker · 08-01-2004, 11:46 PM

td, are you on dial up or broadband? If broadband, then just e-mail 6 at a time to me. If on dial up then whatever is fine.

You can place 8 pictures at a time onto each posting, then the other four. There is a tutorial that some wantabe expert put on posting pictures under the help forum. Essentially, you upload the piccies, then copy the url, place the url here in the box and then add [img] and [/img] before and after of each url (no spaces). Sounds much more difficult than it is.

Ed

Vlim · 08-13-2004, 06:48 PM

Hi,

After seeing the close-ups of the pistol and the magazines, I have to conclude there is something about the serial numbers and the proofs that is somewhat confusing.

Both magazines have numberings from different facilities, as do parts of the pistol. The dies used for the receiver/barrel differ from those on the frame and the side plate. Some other parts show die differences also.

Furthermore, the dies used on mag 1 differ from those on mag 2.

It appears that a commercially numbered pistol was changed to military style numbering.

The dies on mag 2 and the receiver main number are consistant with Simson use. The other dies are consistant with DWM/Mauser use.

A Simson rework?

Don M · 08-18-2004, 04:53 PM

Are the pictures going to be posted in this thread?

thunderdawg · 08-18-2004, 11:07 PM

Don M,
The pictures are in the thread "TD's Police Luger pictures #1". My confusion caused them to be posted on a new thread instead of this one. Sorry about that.

policeluger · 08-19-2004, 08:48 PM

Had a great visit this afternoon with Rich and this "Hannover" police in question. 1. one of the mags is marked on the splice with "H. S. 184", now we would consider this without question a Hannover stamp, if it appered on the grip in the same mannor, rather then the "Hn" as is on the grip. As it is property numbered to the gun, "184", I feel there is no doubt but this is a Hannover gun. 2. the Stark mag was a replacment mag, later added to the gun and, as would be correct for a lower level maintance depot, and was SN'ed to the gun at that time, differences in size/font ect. can be well accepted as period original/correct...police sear safety is missing the point end, but would be best left alone rather then risk a poor repair, side plate is I believe a later Mauser with same SN, and a poor lever that will be repaired....but I don't think Rich cared about any of this, he just want to know when Mrs.PL was going to be done cooking the elk burgers!

thunderdawg · 08-19-2004, 10:07 PM

Mr and Mrs policeluger were indeed gracious hosts to this humble owner of merely one police Luger. Having the opportunity to absorb so much information from PL for nearly 3 hours was outstanding, and the 2 elk burgers that I shamelessly devoured were just beyond description. Thanks to them both for such a great day.
Oh, PL, the tool has absolutely no markings that I can find.
And Ed, I will take and post sideplate pix tomorrow, unless I get too engrossed with my "new" CMP M1.

Edward Tinker · 08-19-2004, 10:54 PM

TD, I have met policeluger and unfortunately he is even nicer than on the forum!

Seriously, he's a good guy and this forum has enabled me to meet a heck of a lot of nice guys!

For a first police luger, it is a keeper in my view.

And those CMP M1 are sweet, take a picture of that and add it with the others!

Ed

policeluger · 08-21-2004, 11:39 PM

Took a few of the boys out of the safe for TD to look at...all he was interested in was elk burgers !

Edward Tinker · 08-22-2004, 12:07 AM

Outstanding Howard!

These family pictures are great!!

Ed

Not as many or as nice, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

darn CZ-52 sneaking in!!

Dwight Gruber · 08-22-2004, 02:36 AM

Howard,

Very nice. I'd tell Ed that his are nice too, but I've seen that wall and said it before...

--dwight

thunderdawg · 08-22-2004, 06:07 PM

As soon as I resolve my toasted PC problem, will post pictures of the side plate (both sides), and the new to me CMP M1. It (the M1) is much better than I expected, and the turn around was truly amazing. Have not dealt with CMP before, my last similar acquisition was from DCM back in the early '60's: an M1 Carbine for $17.50 plus $2.50 shipping. Oh, right this is the Luger forum. What a dumkopf.

And Howard, it was tough to pull away from looking at your collection, but the elk burgers were speaking to me.

07-27-2004, 05:14 PM	#22
thunderdawg User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	PL, PM back at you. __________________ Thunderdawg

07-27-2004, 07:59 PM	#24
thunderdawg User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	To all, Just took a few dozen pix. Will attempt to boil them down to a few to post to show: serial and suffix markings on barrel and receiver, magazine base markings, STARK marking on one mag, and the proof marks on toggle and receiver. Shooting pix with a digital cam is a whole new process compared to film. But you all knew that. Cheers. __________________ Thunderdawg

07-27-2004, 08:49 PM	#25
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I would like to see all the pics if you are interested in sending them to me. You could send them in a couple of e-mails if you don't want them to clog up both of our e-mail boxes. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-01-2004, 11:27 PM	#26
thunderdawg User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Whew, I have 12 pix that cover the markings, plus many other duplicates. They have been edited to reduce the size, images range from 51KB to 126KB, and are in Mozilla JPEG format. Not wanting to run afoul of forum protocols, if I copied these 12 pix to the server and did the copy and paste to another message (not sure about the copy and paste part?), will that be ok? And to Ed, if you would like, I can copy all the pix to a CD and mail to you. The full files range from about 250KB to 350KB. They would be subdivided in folders as to subject for viewing ease. __________________ Thunderdawg

08-01-2004, 11:46 PM	#27
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	td, are you on dial up or broadband? If broadband, then just e-mail 6 at a time to me. If on dial up then whatever is fine. You can place 8 pictures at a time onto each posting, then the other four. There is a tutorial that some wantabe expert put on posting pictures under the help forum. Essentially, you upload the piccies, then copy the url, place the url here in the box and then add [img] and [/img] before and after of each url (no spaces). Sounds much more difficult than it is. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-27-2004, 01:06 AM	#21
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	td...I have sent you a PM.

07-27-2004, 05:53 PM	#23
ken d Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: louisville ky Posts: 277 Thanks: 31 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	Thunderdawg: Costanzo,World of Lugers,item 61a, defines the Sunburst over S as "1929-1932 late Police proof. The initial S represents Sonderpolizei." Hard to tell if this is the proof on yours without pics. I have no pic capability on my old computer. Regards Ken D

08-13-2004, 06:48 PM	#28
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	Hi, After seeing the close-ups of the pistol and the magazines, I have to conclude there is something about the serial numbers and the proofs that is somewhat confusing. Both magazines have numberings from different facilities, as do parts of the pistol. The dies used for the receiver/barrel differ from those on the frame and the side plate. Some other parts show die differences also. Furthermore, the dies used on mag 1 differ from those on mag 2. It appears that a commercially numbered pistol was changed to military style numbering. The dies on mag 2 and the receiver main number are consistant with Simson use. The other dies are consistant with DWM/Mauser use. A Simson rework?

08-18-2004, 04:53 PM	#29
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Are the pictures going to be posted in this thread? __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

08-18-2004, 11:07 PM	#30
thunderdawg User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Don M, The pictures are in the thread "TD's Police Luger pictures #1". My confusion caused them to be posted on a new thread instead of this one. Sorry about that. __________________ Thunderdawg

08-19-2004, 08:48 PM	#31
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Had a great visit this afternoon with Rich and this "Hannover" police in question. 1. one of the mags is marked on the splice with "H. S. 184", now we would consider this without question a Hannover stamp, if it appered on the grip in the same mannor, rather then the "Hn" as is on the grip. As it is property numbered to the gun, "184", I feel there is no doubt but this is a Hannover gun. 2. the Stark mag was a replacment mag, later added to the gun and, as would be correct for a lower level maintance depot, and was SN'ed to the gun at that time, differences in size/font ect. can be well accepted as period original/correct...police sear safety is missing the point end, but would be best left alone rather then risk a poor repair, side plate is I believe a later Mauser with same SN, and a poor lever that will be repaired....but I don't think Rich cared about any of this, he just want to know when Mrs.PL was going to be done cooking the elk burgers!

08-19-2004, 10:07 PM	#32
thunderdawg User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mr and Mrs policeluger were indeed gracious hosts to this humble owner of merely one police Luger. Having the opportunity to absorb so much information from PL for nearly 3 hours was outstanding, and the 2 elk burgers that I shamelessly devoured were just beyond description. Thanks to them both for such a great day. Oh, PL, the tool has absolutely no markings that I can find. And Ed, I will take and post sideplate pix tomorrow, unless I get too engrossed with my "new" CMP M1. __________________ Thunderdawg

08-19-2004, 10:54 PM	#33
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	TD, I have met policeluger and unfortunately he is even nicer than on the forum! Seriously, he's a good guy and this forum has enabled me to meet a heck of a lot of nice guys! For a first police luger, it is a keeper in my view. And those CMP M1 are sweet, take a picture of that and add it with the others! Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-21-2004, 11:39 PM	#34
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Took a few of the boys out of the safe for TD to look at...all he was interested in was elk burgers !

08-22-2004, 12:07 AM	#35
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Outstanding Howard! These family pictures are great!! Ed Not as many or as nice, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> darn CZ-52 sneaking in!! __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-22-2004, 02:36 AM	#36
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	Howard, Very nice. I'd tell Ed that his are nice too, but I've seen that wall and said it before... --dwight

08-22-2004, 06:07 PM	#37
thunderdawg User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	As soon as I resolve my toasted PC problem, will post pictures of the side plate (both sides), and the new to me CMP M1. It (the M1) is much better than I expected, and the turn around was truly amazing. Have not dealt with CMP before, my last similar acquisition was from DCM back in the early '60's: an M1 Carbine for $17.50 plus $2.50 shipping. Oh, right this is the Luger forum. What a dumkopf. And Howard, it was tough to pull away from looking at your collection, but the elk burgers were speaking to me. __________________ Thunderdawg