Please Help Identify Unit Marking on 1916 DWM

[Don M]

Gerben, this goes to show that one is never too old to learn. I was familiar with the i - j ambiguity. As I understood it, the i was generally used when followed by a consonant and the j when followed by a vowel. Of course, this was sort of violated by the use of J. as an abbreviation for Infanterie in military unit marks. Also, the text you reproduced above seems to contradict this.

Your comments regarding the use of a reverse J make me more comfortable that Lj. and L.J.(reversed) were both abbreviations for the same compound word (e.g., Landjägerei or Landes-Jägerei).

I think we have good evidence that the Württemberg Landjägerkorps used the abbreviations you mention. Also, this force had about 600 men, which is consistent with the observed weapon numbers on L.K. marked Mauser M1914s and Reichsrevolvers (HWIS Table 16-2). Of course, we have no examples of P08s with this marking. I assume they had Lugers but know of no documentation confirming this.

I'm beginning to get a headache from all this and think I'll give it a rest. I hope you and your family have a very Happy Easter.

[jamese]

Don,

This j - i ambiguity, would help explain the "j" stamped over the "i" in the example of mine. When you look at the letter closer you can see the "i" under the "j"

Close up of the "j"


I could always see something under the "j" but wasn't sure what it was until now

Jim

[Don M]

Originally Posted by Vlim

It would be fun to see a logical alternative for the 'Lj.' abbreviation, though. I really can't think of anything else that would make sense, unless the 'j' was actually meant to be an 'i' and we are looking at an 'Li' abbreviation instead...

Originally Posted by jamese

This j - i ambiguity, would help explain the "j" stamped over the "i" in the example of mine. When you look at the letter closer you can see the "i" under the "j"

Jim, I think you may be correct although the j in your marking apparently was hand engraved rather than stamped (minor point). Your example supports Gerben's suggestion that perhaps we should be considering a compound word alternatively abbreviated as Li. or L.I. Perhaps the marking variations represent an evolution that began as Li., was modified to Lj. and ultimately to L.J.(rev). This evolution may have been driven by successive realizations that the marking could be confused with that of another police force or location. For example:
* Li. was the abbreviation for Liegnitz in Prussian Shupo markings.
* Lj. could easily be interpreted as an abbreviation for Landjäger or Landjägerei (as we have done).
* An I. in the abbreviation L.I. could easily be interpreted as a Roman numeral.
* A reverse J. would be unique, especially in the stylized font used.

The L. is almost certainly an abbreviation for Land (State). The only police term beginning with I that immediately comes to mind is Inspektion (Inspectorate). Perhaps this was a small state police unit that has not been previously identified. Unless some confirming documentation surfaces, this is pure speculation.

This also leaves the question of the meaning of K. It is almost certainly from the Weimar era and cannot represent Königlich or Kaiserlich. Perhaps it stands for a city in which this unit was located. To date, the only marking that has been identified from the state of Baden is Ma. from the Schupo at Mannheim. No markings have been identified from other units or locations in Baden. Two other significant cities in Baden were the capital Karlsruhe (pop. 145,694) and Kontanz (31,252). Karlsruhe had a police Direktion and seems too large for this unit which makes Konstanz a more likely candidate.

Putting all this together results in a very tenuous identification of Konstanzisches Landes-Inspektion. I am not ready to take this to the bank but do think we may be getting closer. Thank you both for your critical input to this mystery.

I will welcome any comments or criticisms.

[Don M]

Looking harder at Jim's "j" and comparing it with other examples leads me to believe that the original stamped letter may have been a "j" and not an "i." Possibly, the original stamp was poorly struck and someone touched it up with an engraving tool. This would eliminate the Li. step above but does not really change the overall picture.

It is also possible and perhaps probable that the L. stands for Landespolizei in much the same way that S. stands for Schutzpolizei in Prussian markings.

[Don M]

It's either feast or famine! Another one of these has surfaced: http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...228#post194228.

[bdome]

Interesting Don. I hope he can acquire more info on how the old timer got it. If your info about a large number of these pistols with similar markings being captured by USGI's is correct it would make me feel a whole lot better about mine. I would sure like to think that the hash marks added to the grip of mine were added by a GI AFTER it had been ''liberated''.

[Don M]

Originally Posted by bdome

I would sure like to think that the hash marks added to the grip of mine were added by a GI AFTER it had been ''liberated''.

I think you would be safe in that assumption.

[Don M]

After doing a bit more research, I now believe Konstanz is an unlikely location for this unit. Konstanz was captured by the French Army in the latter days of WWII and remained in the French occupation zone after the war. If this unit had about 150 men (based on observed weapon numbers), the "survival rate" of its Lugers is about 7% which is rather high and much higher than would be expected from an area controlled by the French. I think a location in Bavaria which was captured and occupied by Americans is much more likely. Kempten would be a candidate but that's highly speculative.

[bdome]

Many thanks for your diligence Don. If these artifacts could only talk it would make things a lot easier, wouldn't it?