Unit Markings

[TAXRX]

VERY RARE ALL MATCHING SIMSON SNEAK UNIT MARKED L.E. 92. CAN ANYONE PROVIDE INFO?
THANKS
HN

[Don M]

Harvey,

Welcome to the forum. You will need to give us more information about this pistol if you want knowledgeable help. I can tell you that the pistol was issued to the Landj�¤gerei (rural constabulary) of the Prussian administrative district of Erfurt.

The terms "Simson" and "sneak" really don't go together. My guess is that you have what is known as a 29 DWM with a blank toggle. These were manufactured by BKIW (the successor to DWM) in 1929 and about 9000 of them were issued to the Prussian Landj�¤gerei. It probably has a serial number with a "t" or "u" suffix and may have WaA66 acceptance markings on the right side of the receiver. It probably has a sear safety and at least evidence of a former mag safety. While these are very nice Lugers, I would not say they are "very rare." For some reason, a high percentage of these found there way into western collectors' hands.

If you can, please post photos. I would also be very interested in knowing for my database of German police markings the full serial number with suffix, toggle logo, if any, acceptance markings on right side of the receiver and whether or not there is/were sear and mag safeties.

[Edward Tinker]

Welcome to the forum;

There is another police luger on this forum, here is L.E.136.

Not sure why Bob called it a sneak, as it has the dWM, so it is not a sneak...


BTW, using ALL CAPS is considered yelling on the internet, although it is okay if you have a medical condition (missing fingers etc)

Ed

[TAXRX]

DON,
I truly appreciate your post and would not assume that I know more about this than you. I would however point you to page 231 of Kenyon LUGERS AT RANDOM, discussing Mauser and Simson Reworks of the early Nazi Era (1930-1933) "often referred to as "sneak lugers" . If you are interested in the markings and simson proofs look at page 241 in Kenyon. The luger shown is exactly as mine is marked with all of the simson proofs. Kenyon also states that there are very few of these. I go back to my original question about the regimental markings. L. E. 92.
Thanks and Happy New Year to all.
hn

[Edward Tinker]

hn, older information is sometimes wrong. Graham and I have a book on Simson Lugers, published this last summer.

Todays information says that the term "Sneak" lugers is used for those lugers that were made in the late 1920's and did not have a toggle marking.

The L.E.92 is not a regimental marking, but a police unit marking.
Here is what it said in another posting, although Don Maus has better information; Landjaegerei (rural constabulary) in the Erfurt district, weapon inventory #92

Here is the posting that I referred to earlier; http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...threadid=14377

As I said, it is NOT a sneak and in fact the sneak term has probably never been accuarate.

Simson reworked many lugers in the early 1920's then made new lugers through and up to about 1934. I am sure they reworked lugers also, as they were the official reworkers for the Reichswehr P08's, rifles etc.

In the late 1920's and early 30's parts were supplied and/or reworked by Simson and thus you see the eagle 6 or eagle 33 on police lugers.

I am sure yours has a sear police safety on it?


Ed

[Don M]

Harvey, as I mentioned originally, we really need more information about your Luger and good photos will go a long way toward satisfying that need. Other than the meaning of the grip strap marking, the rest of my comments were based on the most probable identification of your pistol in the absence of any information.

I looked up your reference to Kenyon p. 241 and this is a typical 29 DWM with a blank toggle. Collectors used to think that the blank toggle indicated an effort to "sneak" Lugers past the Allied authorities but this notion has been largely discounted in recent years. The Kenyon illustration has typical Weimar acceptance stamps including the E/WaA66 which is found on most of the Landj�¤gerei Lugers. The L.E.136. posting Ed refers to also depicts one of these Lugers and illustrates both the sear and mag safety. In this case, the toggle does have the DWM logo. If your Luger is like these, it is a 29 DWM.

[TAXRX]

Don,
the only marking on the toggle is a simson eagle on the left side forward of the pivot and the ser # on the rear. On the front of receiver are 3 simson proofs. photos are at ritesideproofs.jpg and barrell.jpg
thanks again
hn

[TAXRX]

help where did my photos go.

[TAXRX]

[Don M]

Harvey, I'm no expert on acceptance stamps and will bow to a more knowledgeable opinion but I do not think any of these are Simson stamps unless there is a number 6 or 33 beneath the eagle on the left on the receiver and/or on the barrel. I can't tell from the photo. If they are, they would indicate rework by Simson of a 29 DWM. I have no idea how rare that would be.

[Edward Tinker]

yes, these are weimar acceptance stamps.

Can we see a top photo of the toggle

(I made the pictures show)

EACH time you upload, copy the entire URL, post it and then / either / go back in and edit it changing the URL letters to IMG or use the IMG and it'll do it for you.


Ed

[TAXRX]

IMG:TOGGLE.JPG

[TAXRX]

ED,
thanks again, but I don't understand the "change the URL to IMG" I can find the photo but don't see how to edit.
thanks again
hn

[Edward Tinker]

see the paper and pencil icon, that will allow you to edit your own posting lower right.


you'll see where the url (the clickable thingy) and by changing it to img on both ends, it tells a computer to "show" the picture.


ed

[Don M]

Harvey, would you please let me know the serial number and letter suffix (under the number on the front of the frame) for my database?

[TAXRX]

[TAXRX]

Don
serial number is 4048. there is no letter on the front of the receiver. there appears to be a character under the ser # on the barrell, but it is clear and crisp but I can't make it out.
h

[Edward Tinker]

Looks like a "u" suffix to me.

[TAXRX]

you know more than I. Is the U significant?

[Edward Tinker]

It goes with the serial number.

Yours with no toggle marking is called a sneak by many collectors, and the "u" suffix would be at the very end of DWM production (it would be correct)


ed