Replacing Hold Open Latch Spring

DZelenka · 09-25-2009, 10:27 AM

My daughter recently inherited a Luger with a broken Hold Open Latch Spring. The pistol is a byf 41 "Black Widow" with all matching numbers and a correct magazine in what I would consider Good+ to VG- condition. I read the discussion concerning changing this spring below and there was a recommended source of "German made" replacement springs. My research has shown that Numrich and Poppert both have springs for sale. My questions are: Will replacing the spring have any affect on value? What are the differences between the springs from the various sources? Will the springs from any particular source have any affect on value? I would like to return the pistol to top mechanical condition without affecting its collectibility.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

Dan

Ron Wood · 09-25-2009, 11:05 AM

Once installed the springs will be virtually indistinguisable from each other. I do not know for sure, but I suspect there are varying qualities of replacement springs, so fitting and installation may not be the same for all. Since the spring is un-numbered, if you have the original holdopen and are only replacing the spring it will not reduce the value of the gun. In fact it will improve the value a little bit as it would then be a fully functional piece.
NIce looking family heirloom.

DZelenka · 09-25-2009, 11:08 AM

Thanks. Any trick to installing it?

Ingvarg · 09-25-2009, 11:13 AM

Try this:

http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to/vi...pistol-199964/

Ron Wood · 09-25-2009, 11:15 AM

I don't think so. It just takes a very small diameter punch to drift out the old spring from the holdopen and then press in the new one. About the only "trick" involved would be to exercise care in not marring the holdopen.

PostScript: Ingvarg comes to the rescue!

Ingvarg · 09-25-2009, 11:21 AM

And if you are not sure how to remove and install the hold open. Here you go

http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to/vi...pistol-199973/

Edward Tinker · 09-25-2009, 11:39 AM

I personally have a heck of a time gettng the buggers in. I haven't looked at the video / htmls, but I kinda push the end of the spring up, whilst simutaneously pushing from the back and NOT letting it slide in.

Sounds as hard as it sounds. But once it goes in, its in. Its just that the little bugger likes to slip out from front or rear...

DZelenka · 09-25-2009, 12:29 PM

I saw this message from Lugerdoc in another thread: "I have new German made ones available @$25 each + $3 S&H." Any reason to chose one of these over any other?

I am going to move the pictures and story to a more appropriate forum. The questions about the spring will remain here.

Ron Wood · 09-25-2009, 01:14 PM

Tom Heller (lugerdoc) is a great source for parts, go for it.

DZelenka · 09-30-2009, 11:48 AM

the broken spring in the gun is polished. the new spring is black. should I use the black one or try to find a polished one? Which would be correct for the gun?

99-9x · 10-01-2009, 09:43 AM

Some time ago I purchased a spring from Tom Heller,installed and it worked flawlessly.I may be wrong but in my research I believe temper is critical to the life of the spring and the Gunparts springs were not up to the task.

DZelenka · 10-01-2009, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99-9x

Some time ago I purchased a spring from Tom Heller,installed and it worked flawlessly.I may be wrong but in my research I believe temper is critical to the life of the spring and the Gunparts springs were not up to the task.

Thanks for the info. If anyone else has any experience I would like to hear it.

99-9x, this one is for you.

99-9x · 10-01-2009, 10:33 AM

Thanks for the picture,been there done that.Good luck with your Luger.

FNorm · 10-01-2009, 02:38 PM

I have little trouble with hold opens. First make sure the groove in the frame is clean and lightly oiled. Same with the H-O spring. Holding the gun with L. hand. H-O cross piece in rt. hand. I place the tip of the spring ahead of the groove. Slowly pull back until you start to see the groove, then using the L thumb I bow the spring and push forward until it all snaps together.

Now if someone would give me hints on the trigger, I'd be forever grateful. I have fits trying to get a trigger back in without bending the spring sideways...

FN

John Sabato · 10-01-2009, 03:47 PM

Compress the trigger spring to the frame (back of the trigger guard as you fit the pivot pin at the top into place. It just takes practice... or if you have a VERY tough thumbnail, you can try compressing it that way as you insert it.

Ice · 10-01-2009, 03:48 PM

I use a small flat screwdriver to press the spring slightly into the back recess of the trigger as I slide it in. If the spring end catches sideways on the back of frame then I use the screwdriver blade to help it along.

Charlie

FNorm · 10-01-2009, 04:30 PM

Thanks, guys!

With broken thumbnail,

FN

Ingvarg · 10-01-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice

I use a small flat screwdriver to press the spring slightly into the back recess of the trigger as I slide it in. If the spring end catches sideways on the back of frame then I use the screwdriver blade to help it along.

Charlie

I usually use toothpick, matchstick or similar. Less likely to scrach the frame than the skrewdriver.

John Sabato · 10-02-2009, 11:01 AM

Ingvar,

You must have some pretty tough toothpicks and matchsticks in Iceland! The trigger return springs that I have seen are some pretty tough springs that would laugh at using such things to compress them.

Ingvarg · 10-02-2009, 12:07 PM

Use the end of the match (or brake the tip of the tootpick) and use it to guide the spring with the end of it as you slide the trigger in.
If done right its pretty easy, but possible the spring on mine is getting softer by the years. (100 yrs)

09-25-2009, 10:27 AM	#1
DZelenka User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Replacing Hold Open Latch Spring My daughter recently inherited a Luger with a broken Hold Open Latch Spring. The pistol is a byf 41 "Black Widow" with all matching numbers and a correct magazine in what I would consider Good+ to VG- condition. I read the discussion concerning changing this spring below and there was a recommended source of "German made" replacement springs. My research has shown that Numrich and Poppert both have springs for sale. My questions are: Will replacing the spring have any affect on value? What are the differences between the springs from the various sources? Will the springs from any particular source have any affect on value? I would like to return the pistol to top mechanical condition without affecting its collectibility. Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. Dan Last edited by DZelenka; 09-25-2009 at 12:32 PM. Reason: Move info to more appropriate forum

09-25-2009, 11:05 AM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Once installed the springs will be virtually indistinguisable from each other. I do not know for sure, but I suspect there are varying qualities of replacement springs, so fitting and installation may not be the same for all. Since the spring is un-numbered, if you have the original holdopen and are only replacing the spring it will not reduce the value of the gun. In fact it will improve the value a little bit as it would then be a fully functional piece. NIce looking family heirloom. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-25-2009, 11:13 AM	#4
Ingvarg User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Iceland Posts: 103 Thanks: 9 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Try this: http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to/vi...pistol-199964/ __________________ Regards: Ingvar

09-25-2009, 11:15 AM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	I don't think so. It just takes a very small diameter punch to drift out the old spring from the holdopen and then press in the new one. About the only "trick" involved would be to exercise care in not marring the holdopen. PostScript: Ingvarg comes to the rescue! __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-25-2009, 11:21 AM	#6
Ingvarg User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Iceland Posts: 103 Thanks: 9 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	And if you are not sure how to remove and install the hold open. Here you go http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to/vi...pistol-199973/ __________________ Regards: Ingvar

09-25-2009, 11:08 AM	#3
DZelenka User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks. Any trick to installing it?

09-25-2009, 11:39 AM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,992 Thanked 4,507 Times in 2,081 Posts	I personally have a heck of a time gettng the buggers in. I haven't looked at the video / htmls, but I kinda push the end of the spring up, whilst simutaneously pushing from the back and NOT letting it slide in. Sounds as hard as it sounds. But once it goes in, its in. Its just that the little bugger likes to slip out from front or rear... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-25-2009, 12:29 PM	#8
DZelenka User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I saw this message from Lugerdoc in another thread: "I have new German made ones available @$25 each + $3 S&H." Any reason to chose one of these over any other? I am going to move the pictures and story to a more appropriate forum. The questions about the spring will remain here.

09-25-2009, 01:14 PM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Tom Heller (lugerdoc) is a great source for parts, go for it. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-30-2009, 11:48 AM	#10
DZelenka User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	the broken spring in the gun is polished. the new spring is black. should I use the black one or try to find a polished one? Which would be correct for the gun?

10-01-2009, 09:43 AM	#11
99-9x User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 15 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Some time ago I purchased a spring from Tom Heller,installed and it worked flawlessly.I may be wrong but in my research I believe temper is critical to the life of the spring and the Gunparts springs were not up to the task.

10-01-2009, 10:33 AM	#13
99-9x User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 15 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the picture,been there done that.Good luck with your Luger.

10-01-2009, 02:38 PM	#14
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	I have little trouble with hold opens. First make sure the groove in the frame is clean and lightly oiled. Same with the H-O spring. Holding the gun with L. hand. H-O cross piece in rt. hand. I place the tip of the spring ahead of the groove. Slowly pull back until you start to see the groove, then using the L thumb I bow the spring and push forward until it all snaps together. Now if someone would give me hints on the trigger, I'd be forever grateful. I have fits trying to get a trigger back in without bending the spring sideways... FN Last edited by FNorm; 10-01-2009 at 02:58 PM. Reason: word change

10-01-2009, 03:47 PM	#15
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Compress the trigger spring to the frame (back of the trigger guard as you fit the pivot pin at the top into place. It just takes practice... or if you have a VERY tough thumbnail, you can try compressing it that way as you insert it. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-01-2009, 03:48 PM	#16
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	I use a small flat screwdriver to press the spring slightly into the back recess of the trigger as I slide it in. If the spring end catches sideways on the back of frame then I use the screwdriver blade to help it along. Charlie

10-01-2009, 04:30 PM	#17
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Thanks, guys! With broken thumbnail, FN

10-02-2009, 11:01 AM	#19
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Ingvar, You must have some pretty tough toothpicks and matchsticks in Iceland! The trigger return springs that I have seen are some pretty tough springs that would laugh at using such things to compress them. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-02-2009, 12:07 PM	#20
Ingvarg User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Iceland Posts: 103 Thanks: 9 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Use the end of the match (or brake the tip of the tootpick) and use it to guide the spring with the end of it as you slide the trigger in. If done right its pretty easy, but possible the spring on mine is getting softer by the years. (100 yrs) __________________ Regards: Ingvar