Opinions on this carbine please..

Matt108 · 07-13-2018, 05:06 PM

Not really Luger Guy more a Nihonto Japanese sword guy I do have one shooter grade Luger and I just acquired this but I am looking to trade it for a sword to a friend however I’m not sure of the value of this.

From what I gather is a vet brought this back and then had the stock in the four grip replaced in the 70s as well as having the box made. Only 2 numbers visable, stock has some wiggle to it. It’s 9mm.

I know enough to be dangerous and I can’t really find any examples other than the $10,000 ones out there on the Internet so any and all info or opinions would be appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

Matt

HerrKaiser · 07-13-2018, 05:18 PM

I can tell you that it’s been re-blued/buffed or otherwise constructed of miscellaneous parts, the toggle link on top should have the DWM scroll on it if it’s an original. While carbines like this were sometimes made in 9mm, most were chambered for .30 Luger instead. I see several forum members who take one of their shooter grade Lugers and convert it into a carbine as a project with a great deal of time and effort expended in the process. If I have my guess, I’d say that’s what happened in the case of this carbine.

Matt108 · 07-13-2018, 05:38 PM

Appreciate it! Think it’s worth 3k?

Major Tom · 07-13-2018, 05:43 PM

3000$? No, in my humble opinion. But it is nice looking.

Matt108 · 07-13-2018, 05:45 PM

What would be a fair price? I don’t want to screw anyone nor do I want to get screwed.

I appreciate your time!

Matt

DavidJayUden · 07-13-2018, 06:41 PM

I'm very interested in seeing more photos of the stock attachment lug on the gun and also on the stock itself. Something completely out of the norm.
Price is going to be difficult to quote, it may end up being one of those unusual items that is worth exactly what someone will give you. No more and no less.
Have you shot it and how does it function?
dju

Matt108 · 07-13-2018, 06:49 PM

Put 50 rounds of 124g through it yesterday. 3 stove pipes that’s it, the rest fed flawlessly.

Matt108 · 07-13-2018, 06:52 PM

Sorry the other end..

lugerholsterrepair · 07-13-2018, 07:19 PM

YIKES! It's a shooter...nothing more. Allowing $1,200 would be generous IMO. Your friend might be willing to part with more for it on a trade..But..it ain't no carbine.

Matt108 · 07-13-2018, 07:21 PM

Ok, well I still did ok on it then.

Yeah I may still do ok as he’s more into guns than swords.

I appreciate everyone’s time and thoughts!

Matt

Edward Tinker · 07-13-2018, 08:31 PM

In the 60's / 70's - it was not uncommon to get a carbine kit - you can tell because of the barrel being 16+ inches - AND the stock lug is totally weird.

Personally, I think they did a good job and if it feeds and shoots (the two I had would not keep firing more than a couple at a time before jamming).

The stock and other wood is nice looking and for trade value, I would think you could get 2k - selling, I would be asking $1400-$1600 but stressing that it does function.

Ed

Matt108 · 07-13-2018, 09:14 PM

Crap, I can’t do it to him.

Well there’s a gun show next weekend.

Thanks for the input!

Matt

DavidJayUden · 07-14-2018, 12:28 AM

So is the forearm wood attached directly to the barrel or to something else? When you cycle the toggle does the barrel move fore and aft independently of the forearm wood?
Thanks for photos of the stock attachment device. It's a new one on me...
dju

DavidJayUden · 07-14-2018, 12:28 AM

So is the forearm wood attached directly to the barrel or to something else? When you cycle the toggle does the barrel move fore and aft independently of the forearm wood?
Thanks for photos of the stock attachment device. It's a new one on me...
dju

Matt108 · 07-14-2018, 01:00 AM

The barrel moves when cycled.

Edward Tinker · 07-14-2018, 01:24 AM

the two that I have had (and the barrel was too heavy for shooting), had a screw that held the forearm to the barrel if I remember correctly

Matt108 · 07-14-2018, 01:27 AM

Yep there’s a screw about 4” away from the sling attachment.

Sergio Natali · 07-15-2018, 11:48 AM

I'm not an expert, especially on carbine lugers, just for your reference the one pictured below not long ago was sold here for almost 19,000 $ although the stock is not matching.

sheepherder · 07-15-2018, 12:56 PM

The frame stock attaching lugs are somewhat bizarre, but appear to be effective. Either the original stock lug was ground off or it is a pre-lug frame. The smaller lug was evidently added to keep the stock from twisting. The large lug has a groove filed in it to lock the stock in place. No sliding lug slots at all.

Pics aren't detailed/clear enough to see exactly how it locks up but I get a rough idea of how it would work.

Oil is seeping into the left grip.

Mec-Gar magazine??? Plastic bottom looks like it.

I think Jerry's estimate of value is generous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt108

Crap, I can’t do it to him.
Well there’s a gun show next weekend.
Thanks for the input!
Matt

It's been my observation that new members with questions of originality or authenticity already have valid suspicions about their Luger in question. This is a good example - You already suspected it was not original and wished to reinforce that suspicion with opinions from more knowledgeable Luger collectors. I'm surprised that Don or Dwight haven't voiced their concerns, but you've gotten a couple good opinions already.

How about some clearer pics of the frame lugs, the stock attaching iron, and the frame with forearm removed??? That should elicit more comments.

DonVoigt · 07-15-2018, 02:23 PM

Others have said what I would have.
I would be in the not so well hand made/one off production group.

07-13-2018, 05:06 PM	#1
Matt108 User Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Opinions on this carbine please.. Not really Luger Guy more a Nihonto Japanese sword guy I do have one shooter grade Luger and I just acquired this but I am looking to trade it for a sword to a friend however I’m not sure of the value of this. From what I gather is a vet brought this back and then had the stock in the four grip replaced in the 70s as well as having the box made. Only 2 numbers visable, stock has some wiggle to it. It’s 9mm. I know enough to be dangerous and I can’t really find any examples other than the $10,000 ones out there on the Internet so any and all info or opinions would be appreciated! Thanks in advance! Matt Attached Thumbnails

07-13-2018, 05:18 PM	#2
HerrKaiser User Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: South Carolina Posts: 847 Thanks: 782 Thanked 860 Times in 410 Posts	I can tell you that it’s been re-blued/buffed or otherwise constructed of miscellaneous parts, the toggle link on top should have the DWM scroll on it if it’s an original. While carbines like this were sometimes made in 9mm, most were chambered for .30 Luger instead. I see several forum members who take one of their shooter grade Lugers and convert it into a carbine as a project with a great deal of time and effort expended in the process. If I have my guess, I’d say that’s what happened in the case of this carbine. __________________ -QM Looking for Mauser S/42 toggle train #22

07-13-2018, 05:43 PM	#4
Major Tom User Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: S.E. Iowa Posts: 484 Thanks: 533 Thanked 227 Times in 124 Posts	3000$? No, in my humble opinion. But it is nice looking. __________________ I Build Custom Pistol Boxes

07-13-2018, 06:49 PM	#7
Matt108 User Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Put 50 rounds of 124g through it yesterday. 3 stove pipes that’s it, the rest fed flawlessly. Attached Thumbnails

07-13-2018, 06:52 PM	#8
Matt108 User Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Sorry the other end.. Attached Thumbnails

07-13-2018, 05:38 PM	#3
Matt108 User Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Appreciate it! Think it’s worth 3k?

07-13-2018, 05:45 PM	#5
Matt108 User Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	What would be a fair price? I don’t want to screw anyone nor do I want to get screwed. I appreciate your time! Matt

07-13-2018, 06:41 PM	#6
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I'm very interested in seeing more photos of the stock attachment lug on the gun and also on the stock itself. Something completely out of the norm. Price is going to be difficult to quote, it may end up being one of those unusual items that is worth exactly what someone will give you. No more and no less. Have you shot it and how does it function? dju

07-13-2018, 07:19 PM	#9
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,927 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	YIKES! It's a shooter...nothing more. Allowing $1,200 would be generous IMO. Your friend might be willing to part with more for it on a trade..But..it ain't no carbine. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-13-2018, 07:21 PM	#10
Matt108 User Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Ok, well I still did ok on it then. Yeah I may still do ok as he’s more into guns than swords. I appreciate everyone’s time and thoughts! Matt

07-13-2018, 08:31 PM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,930 Thanks: 2,030 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	In the 60's / 70's - it was not uncommon to get a carbine kit - you can tell because of the barrel being 16+ inches - AND the stock lug is totally weird. Personally, I think they did a good job and if it feeds and shoots (the two I had would not keep firing more than a couple at a time before jamming). The stock and other wood is nice looking and for trade value, I would think you could get 2k - selling, I would be asking $1400-$1600 but stressing that it does function. Ed

07-13-2018, 09:14 PM	#12
Matt108 User Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Crap, I can’t do it to him. Well there’s a gun show next weekend. Thanks for the input! Matt

07-14-2018, 12:28 AM	#13
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	So is the forearm wood attached directly to the barrel or to something else? When you cycle the toggle does the barrel move fore and aft independently of the forearm wood? Thanks for photos of the stock attachment device. It's a new one on me... dju

07-14-2018, 01:00 AM	#15
Matt108 User Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	The barrel moves when cycled.

07-14-2018, 01:24 AM	#16
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,930 Thanks: 2,030 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	the two that I have had (and the barrel was too heavy for shooting), had a screw that held the forearm to the barrel if I remember correctly

07-14-2018, 01:27 AM	#17
Matt108 User Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Yep there’s a screw about 4” away from the sling attachment.

07-15-2018, 11:48 AM	#18
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	I'm not an expert, especially on carbine lugers, just for your reference the one pictured below not long ago was sold here for almost 19,000 $ although the stock is not matching. Attached Thumbnails __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

07-15-2018, 02:23 PM	#20
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Others have said what I would have. I would be in the not so well hand made/one off production group. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie