How do I ship: new C&R Licensee

[Blasfimus]

I now have my own CnR everyone. I'd like to sell one of my Lugers but I'm. It sure how to do a few things.

A) best method of packaging?

B) best method of postage?

[Edward Tinker]

Okay, let me tell you the proper way.

FedEx or ups next day air - just say it upfront, also say that if it must be shipped via a FFL 01 than you will have to add $50 - the shipper does not need to have an FFL themselves, just. The buyer, who sends it and the money to you.

I wrap the pistol in many layers of bubble wrap. Many. Then put it into a fedex or ups box.



The reason I said right way, there are many who believe that from FFL to FFL you can ship USPS. I believe it's correct, however I usually ship 2nd day air...

[jonnyc]

Ditto on the FFL to FFL via USPS, and the 2nd Day Air.
My 3 local Postmasters also agree!

[wlyon]

One thing to remember UPS and FedEx require that firearms only be shipped via next day air. I asked both what would happen if shipped 2nd day air and lost. They said they would not honor the insurance claim. Something to think about. Bill

[Edward Tinker]

Bill, I agree, but getting a claim from any of them is difficult. I have not had anything lost, but have had a guys stock broken, it took months to get the claim from USPS.

I personally think its crazy that the rules say common carrier - and then a commercial firm can make up rules.... understand it, but think its weird

[guns3545]

JMVHO, but in my experience, USPS Priority Mail, REGISTERED is the best, period!!

If you use a Flat Rate Box, you can ship a Full Rig anywhere in the USA, insure it for full value, and it will get there. And at a decent price.

John

[wlyon]

Agree on USPS but can only be 01 FFL. C&R can not use USPS for handguns. For some obscure reason USPS does not accept 03 license. Bill

[Ray]

Bill, I had not heard that C&R licensee cannot ship a
Luger via USPS. Perhaps you mean "any" handgun
less than 50 years old?
Ray

[Bill_in_VA]

IIRC, Ron Smith has been working with the Postmaster General on this very issue, and over on Jan Still's site posted that the USPS has finally amended the DMM to reconize a C&R FFL as a licensee and thus allow C&R FFLs to ship handguns/concealable firearms via the US Mail. (Previously a "licensee" was defined in the DMM as a manufacturer, dealer or importer...no mention/inclusion of a "collector.")

See post #79 http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...-General/page8

[Blasfimus]

So what procedures do I take to let the USPS accept my package? Do I need to print out a form?

[mrerick]

They still did not modify the regulations on "mailability of handguns" to include transactions by C&R collectors. The mailability of handguns regulations still refer to mailing handguns by "FFL Dealers" and not collectors.

They did add a definition of FFL licensee to include C&R collectors handling C&R qualified firearms.

[Bill_in_VA]

Originally Posted by mrerick

They still did not modify the regulations on "mailability of handguns" to include transactions by C&R collectors. The mailability of handguns regulations still refer to mailing handguns by "FFL Dealers" and not collectors.

They did add a definition of FFL licensee to include C&R collectors handling C&R qualified firearms.

I'm certainly no lawyer, but it seems to me that a plain-language reading of the regs does in fact allow it under section 432.2.b of USPS "Publication 52 - Hazardous, Restricted, and Perishable Mail."

I know laws and regulations aren't always crystal clear, but following the logical progression:

431.2 defines handguns as Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person.

432.2 states that Handguns and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in this section [...] and are subject to the following:

Those parties listed in Section 432.2 (i.e., the restrictions listed in 432.21 through 432.24) are those for whom handguns are mailable (i.e., who may ship handguns through the mail) and are:
- a licensed manufacturer of firearms, a licensed dealer of firearms, a licensed importer of firearms, or an authorized agent of the [...] government ...
- between licensed manufacturers of firearms, licensed dealers of firearms, and licensed importers of firearms in customary trade shipments, or for repairing or replacing parts.

However, 432.2.b then states Firearms meeting the definition of a handgun under 431.2, which are certified by the curator of a municipal, state, or federal museum that exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest, may be accepted for mailing without regard to the restrictions provided for handguns in Exhibit 432.25 and in 432.21 through 432.24. (emphasis added.)

Putting it all together, it seems to say if the handgun is a C&R handgun, mailability isn't restricted to only a government agent/agency, or a licensed firearm manufacturer/dealer/importer.

Again, I'm not lawyer, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night, so I apologize if I've assed up this interpretation.

[lew1]

Bill

How often is the government logical?

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

...shipped via a FFL 01 than you will have to add $50 - the shipper does not need to have an FFL themselves, just. The buyer, who sends it and the money to you.

Ed, New York requires any firearm sent FFL to FFL. Maybe this is what you mean by the first part and extra money?

Anyway, it is not a federal, post office, ups/fedex, ATF requirement, but one concocted by our beloved state police. They, I believe, have nixed any gun shipping/receiving by C&R holders, along with dis-allowing SBRs.

[lew1]

What reason, if any, was given for requiring that an out of state shipper had to have an FFL ?

[Curly1]

Originally Posted by guns3545

JMVHO, but in my experience, USPS Priority Mail, REGISTERED is the best, period!!

If you use a Flat Rate Box, you can ship a Full Rig anywhere in the USA, insure it for full value, and it will get there. And at a decent price.

John

+1 This has worked out well for me also.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by lew1

What reason, if any, was given for requiring that an out of state shipper had to have an FFL ?

Charlie, it beats me, as I've heard no specific reason for it. It would definitely provide a more solid provenance for a gun's most recent origins. If just anybody could send a gun to a dealer here, who is to say that they are even using their real name--not that it would make any meaningful difference? I think it may be an attempt to keep firearms legitimate and out of the black market, either bought or sold. Different from some states where private exchanges go undocumented... Different from before 1968, for sure! I think I'll look into it and let you know.

[mrerick]

Bill_In_VA,

thank you for continuing the research! I had not seen the language in 432.2.b which exempts C&R handgun shippers from the conditions of 432.2.1 through 432.2.5.

But... 432.2.a says C&R licensees can only ship handguns that are "Antique Firearms" between licensees. 432.2.b doesn't eliminate 432.2.a...

431.3 Antique Firearm Antique firearm means any muzzle loading rifle/shotgun/pistol, which is designed to use black powder or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition (except those that incorporate a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof); or any firearm (including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured on or before 1898, or any replica thereof, if such replica: Is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition. Uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

- - - - -

This would seem to limit C&R Licensees to shipping only Black Powder handguns or handguns made before 1898, yet allow anyone else to ship C&R handguns. That is truly illogical... Marc

Here's the reference:

http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm

[lew1]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Charlie, it beats me, as I've heard no specific reason for it. It would definitely provide a more solid provenance for a gun's most recent origins. If just anybody could send a gun to a dealer here, who is to say that they are even using their real name--not that it would make any meaningful difference? I think it may be an attempt to keep firearms legitimate and out of the black market, either bought or sold. Different from some states where private exchanges go undocumented... Different from before 1968, for sure! I think I'll look into it and let you know.

Look at the fact they they want background checks nationally on 'all' firearms (closing the gun show loophole). under such practice only the buyer is checked out. And no info on the firearm is given except whether it is a handgun, long gun, etc.

Of course the next step would be to require such info.

[ithacaartist]

*Groan...*

grōn/

verb
1.
make a deep inarticulate sound in response to pain or despair.
"Marty groaned and pulled the blanket over his head"
synonyms: moan, whimper, cry, call out