7.65mm Luger--AR15

[SteveM]

Why that would be silly, wouldn't it? Not to someone that has a few thousand rounds that will never run through a Luger. What to do but come up with something that would be fun and this is the result. I started doing the research with the intention of only setting this up for a 30 cal Luger, had all of the parts gathered and put together and was wondering where to find a barrel. In the meantime I couldn't stand having this ready to go and couldn't shoot it so I went ahead and set it up for 9mm. That was a success, pretty good for a neophyte when it comes to the AR. Shortly thereafter I ran across someone who chambers barrels for all sorts of non-AR calibers. The barrel arrived Monday, I set it up on another upper receiver and it was ready to go. The next day I stopped at my lgs and we ran some rounds through it for function and also tested it with my 30 cal suppressor. Everything was a success and I can't wait to get it to the range to see how accurate it will be.

For those interested, I decided to build this based on the use of HK MP5 mags. I didn't like the way other magazines stuck straight out from the bottom, mags with a curve to them was the way to go. I bought mags from three different manufacturers and all worked as expected except I had to modify the see through mag from ETS. Not a big deal, I already knew this would have to be done.

[DonVoigt]

Nice work Steve!

You have made a perhaps unique AR - expensive components and shoots expensive ammo!
I have a couple 9mm versions and now - I'm thinking" why not a .30 luger barrel?

Where did you get your barrel and how much was it?

I like the magazine idea too, how did you modify the lower for the HK mag?

[SteveM]

Hi Don,

The barrel was a little pricey($250) but then again you just can't go get one off the shelf. This one came from a small company called Heavy Metal or you can find it by doing a search for the AR Guy. There are plenty of capable machinist on this site that could probably do the same for less. This barrel is a 1-10 twist and is 11" long with a heavy profile(I would say). I had it made so that I could use my 300 BO suppressor, threaded 5/8 x 24.

When I first started thinking about this I assumed that you could build a pistol caliber 9mm AR by just collecting mil-spec parts. I soon found out that wasn't the way it works for these. I suppose you first decide what type of mags you want to use and at first I was going to build it based on Glock mags. Didn't like the overall look with those and then I found on AR15.com some folks that were building theirs on HK mags. There are a couple companies that supply the parts for doing it this way, New Frontier Armory and another called Quarter Circle. I decided on New Frontier using their C5 lower and C5 upper. Going this route though didn't provide for last round bolt hold open but I was ok with that. I'll put a BAD lever on this eventually so that I can at least lock the bolt back.

You're right about it being expensive, could've just bought a 9mm off the shelf and changed out the barrel. I went the other way and now I have 2 uppers with one Lower. Now my little brain is wondering if I could build an upper that would run this reliably:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD5XVXVv0bo

This would be a screamer out of a longer barrel. I use to think AR fanatics were just nuts, now I know where they are coming from.

[Vlim]

Great work. Now add a luger drum magazine

[lugerholsterrepair]

These guns LOOK like an AR but they have no gas assist. Simply a blowback with a very powerful return spring that makes pulling the charging handle back a Herculean effort. A friend loaned me one yesterday..I found a multitude of problems with it. The main one being the problem of the charging handle/spring. Secondarily the glock 30 round magazine. You simply cannot load it past 21/22 rounds without a loader of some sort.
A bolt holdopen would be an absolute necessity. Even with one.. stoppages were a witch because of the powerful return spring.

[SteveM]

Jerry, I'm not having the problems you describe. Maybe the selection of the buffer set-up is the problem. I'm using the JP 9mm silent capture spring and these are well worth the price. So far so good for me. I know what you're saying though, I've looked at the Keltec Sub 2000 and that one is a booger. That's one of the reasons I don't have one of those.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Steve, Yes..I was very interested in it at first. It was just too troublesome for me. I have actually had an AR 15 converted to a side charging handle because I detest the two finger T pull out at the back of the bolt. On a plinker who needs the bolt cover? I had to buy a blank top receiver and have it milled for a side charger but man..it makes it stupidly easy to operate!



If I want to burn up some .30 Luger ammo I break out my snail drums and an Artillery! That does it for me.



But yes..I love your rifle. .30 Luger is a favorite cartridge.

[DonVoigt]

Steve,
thanks for the detailed response.
$250 is a pricy barrel, but I have a lathe and may just make one from a blank.
My 9mm ar is a hybrid already and the barrel is much simpler.

A .30 luger AR would primarily be a conversation piece- as the cartridges are also pricy!
But if one reloaded, not so much.

Anyway thanks for the detailed info, I learned several things from your post- nice job on the AR and the post!

[lugerholsterrepair]

I've looked at the Keltec Sub 2000 and that one is a booger. That's one of the reasons I don't have one of those.



Steve, If I remember correctly the Keltec 9MM's had a bad habit of breaking in half at the range. I was out shooting one with a Friend..it cracked in half and fell apart in his hands while firing! The company said send it back and provided another just like it with no improvements..ready to crack in half again!

[rhuff]

I really like what Steve developed here. I am a big fan of the 30 Luger cartridge, and am in love with pistol caliber short bbl. carbines. It would be interesting to see what the velocity is, coming from that longer bbl. A really neat concept piece. Thanx for showing it to us.

[CptCurl]

I have an M16A1 with all the trappings for a 9mm SMG: a Colt 10.5" upper; a magazine adaptor; a carbine stock and buffer tube; and a heavy 9mm buffer. I also use it with the A1 rifle stock, the rifle buffer, and sufficient spacers in the buffer tube to reduce bolt travel to 9mm length ($3.25 - 13 quarters).

In my opinion the 9mm SMG setup is far and away the most fun setup for plinking with an AR.

I must differ on the use of a non-Colt magazine. I can't imagine any advantage using the HK or Glock magazine. One great thing about using the standard Colt magazines is the availability of the wonderful Maglula magazine loader available for it. I have a number of Colt magazines and a box full of the C Products magazines. These basically are copies of the Uzi magazine and are indestructible. I prefer the 20 round mags but also use the 32 round mags.

Mine never has jammed, either FA or SA.

Yeah, it would be a hoot to have an upper made up in 7.65mm Para. Great project!

Curl