ATF Inspection

[Hugh]

Has anyone here with a C&R license had an ATF inspection? I got a call today from an ATF agent who is coming out tomorrow to inspect my bound book. I would like to hear about anyones experience with this, and what to expect.
Thanks.

[Edward Tinker]

On main gunboards, folks have experienced this; but its uncommon.

From what I understand is that they check, but not as thourghly as a a 01.

Many folks have no idea what a 03 and 01 can do. The ATF agents I have dealt with for my 01 were very nice and helpful, but they would quote things about 03's that was incorrect.

Give them limited information, be friendly, but don't offer anything.

You can request another time if this time is inconvient to you...


Ed

[lfid]

Hugh ,

there is a prior thread somewhere here on the forum with some recent posts

sorry dont recall the main subject

included what appeared to be good info to know

Bill

[lew1]

In addition to what Ed said, you can request that the inspection of the books be done at their office.

[saab-bob]

My local FFL 01 was telling me the other day that the current Administration is asking the BATF to do more inspections on
C & R 03 license holders. He owns a very busy gun store.

[Ron Smith]

I've heard stories that they have been busting C&Rs at gun shows who were dealing non-C&R guns. Maybe the reason they are stepping up the inspections.

In my opinion, the reason they are allowing you to come to their office for the audit. Is more to determine your character, than to check your records. They are trying to weed out the Culls.

[azlaw]

Let us know what happens. They hit my VISA card over a month ago for my renewal, but I have got nothing back.

H

[alanint]

ATF has never stood its ground against the local political background. They will always blow whichever way the current administration suggest they do.
Remember the massive culling of garage based FFLs and C&Rs under Klinton?
Something like 275K FFLs were eliminated or not renewed during that period by using zoning laws, withholding of renewal forms, insurance dodges and other methods. Many storefront FFLs stood by and some even applauded this purge, claiming that garage based FFLs were hurting their business. I won't argue this either way, but you can be sure that crackdowns and tightening of regulations are coming under the current administration.

[lew1]

Originally Posted by Ron Smith

I've heard stories that they have been busting C&Rs at gun shows who were dealing non-C&R guns. Maybe the reason they are stepping up the inspections.

In my opinion, the reason they are allowing you to come to their office for the audit. Is more to determine your character, than to check your records. They are trying to weed out the Culls.

The office inspection is in the regs I believe. Just an oddity like the fact that if yo give up your C&R, you do not have to turn in your bound book.

As to gun shows, I know several people who have C&Rs and buy and sell (on the dealer scale) C&R weapons.

[Ron Smith]

"I won't argue this either way, but you can be sure that crackdowns and tightening of regulations are coming under the current administration."

The stepped up audits began well over a year ago, maybe two. Every gun shop in town went through them. They started with C&Rs last Summer.

About two years ago they busted a C&R holder who was selling Glocks and various other non-C&R firearms at the Reno show.

There was also a local shop owner who narrowly missed a prison term. They locked the doors and yanked his license within 2 hours of beginning the audit. He had been in business since the 70's.

[lew1]

Interesting.

All the times you mention as to the start of the increased enforcement was during Bush's tenure. (Except for the gun shop owner for whom no date was given.)

[Edward Tinker]

Originally Posted by lew1

Interesting.

All the times you mention as to the start of the increased enforcement was during Bush's tenure. (Except for the gun shop owner for whom no date was given.)

I don't think this is a specific political move, never has been.

The gov't doesn't like you and me owning guns, its cut and dry. (goes back to the rich / those in power feeling that you are protected by police and the military)

Lots of "rights' Have been modified and taken away the last 10 years, this is just another one that is being eroded.


Ed

[John Sabato]

For those of you who have never had the privilege of stopping by Hugh's house... let me say this... He and Minta are some fine folks who are as hospitable as the day is long.

Two weekends ago I had the disctinct pleasure of visiting with them overnight... and seeing Hugh's collection in person was also a privilege... Those BBQ guns in particular-- I will post a couple of photos soon about my visit.

The only snag I had on my way was FINDING the place . It was after dark when I arrived, and the road is not well marked at all. Finding it in the daylight wouldn't be much easier! Their house is far enough from the road that the agent may even give up!

Hugh- my suggestion is to make the appointment to see you after the sun has gone down and let them try and find your driveway! You may never even hear from them again!

Let us know how things go!

[Ron Smith]

"Except for the gun shop owner for whom no date was given."

Charlie,

About 2 1/2 years ago. Shortly after, they were auditing all of the shops in this area. I worked in the shop for the new owners for about a year and a half. I left in late Nov.'08.


Ron

[lew1]

Last year (under Bush) ATF did compliance exams on most, if not all, of the 01 dealers in the Pittsburg area. I know 3 people who were visited.

And people say bush was pro-gun.

[John Sabato]

The BATFE is a federal bureaucracy that must practice self preservation or someday it will cease to exist (we can only hope)... As long as they stay within the law, and their own regulations, I doubt any President, including Bush, and the present one, would have much to say about their operations. When they step OUTSIDE the law, and their own regulations is when they get into trouble.

C&R inspections are within the law. If you are not violating the law, are respectful of the agent doing his sworn duty, the inspection should be short and sweet. IF the law allows for an inspection of your bound book at THEIR office, that is the best way to maintain the privacy of your home, and collection...make arrangements to do it there, at YOUR convenience, not theirs.

[Edward Tinker]

If you read the regulations, it says you can bring your bound Book AND your guns....


So, you might want to check with the agent ahead of time; many times the office is in a federal building.

Ed

[Hugh]

The agent was very polite when he called. I asked if he would prefer me to come to his office, but he said if I had very many guns, it would be better for him to come to my house. We scheudled the appointment at my convience.

Well, I can sleep easy tonight, everything went smoothly.

I renewed my C&R license in June and one of the questions on the renewal form is: "How many transactions have you recorded in the past three years?" I was truthful and answered 50. That raised a red flag and was what precipitated my "compliance inspection". They were checking to see if I was "dealing in firearms on my C&R license".

The agent said that they normally do not "fool with" C&R licensees, and I was the first one he was aware of that had been checked in the Houston area. All due to my being honest about my recorded transactions. When I explained that my large volume was due to a change in collector interest, and that had I sold most of my large Luger collection to buy Colt Single Actions and engraved pistols, he was very understanding, and said that it looked like a legitimate reason to him.

The Agents official title is: "Industry Operations Investigator". He was very nice, polite and co-orperative. I had layed out my C&R guns on the coffee table, and as I picked one up and called out the SN, he looked it up in the book and checked it off. After we had accounted for the guns, he looked over the recorded entries and gave them a passing grade. And, apparantly a loose leaf notebook type of "bound book" is ok, as he made no comment about mine. The inspection took about two hours, as we visited and had coffee, it was a very cordial meeting.

[Edward Tinker]

OUTSTANDING!!

My two dealings were when I had my 01 for a short period of time, and both folks were very nice.


Ed

[alvin]

Originally Posted by Hugh

one of the questions on the renewal form is: "How many transactions have you recorded in the past three years?" I was truthful and answered 50. That raised a red flag

Surprised. Combining disposition and acquisition, I would think 50 transactions being very "normal" in 36 months.

No?

I don't feel I am very active on guns. But.... this alert line now worries me