.45 luger #20 received from "Lugerman" - Page 2

DavidJayUden · 03-17-2018, 04:27 PM

Forget scopes, focus on how to mount a reflex optic "red dot" sight. I just watched a TV program about modern elephant hunting, and there in deepest, darkest Africa was a professional hunter with a big bore, English "best" double rifle. With an optic sight...
I know they are great to shoot with but is nothing sacred?
dju

LugerMan.com · 03-17-2018, 04:40 PM

I agree, a luger
Will loose some class if it has a scope mounted.
Let along optical red dot.
But, I belive if done with 100 year old traditions in mind, It can be done tastefully.

Also I belive mounting a scope right on the barrel, is physically an easiest option, but will affect dinamics of the auction, and make glass parts participate in recoil, may not be the best way for long term use. Not to mention a need to alter the springs to accommodate for supper heavy barrel cycling.
Anyone tried to install 16 inch on a P08 will know what I am talking about.

Rick W. · 03-17-2018, 06:52 PM

And I thought that scoping a Luger was silly...........just kidding....

something that allows me a few more years of semi, almost respectable shooting skill always has my attention.

As nice and easy as it looks, mounting an optical sight(usually a scope in most renditions) will try your patience as to functionality. More barrel weight/mass, more weight/mass on barrel, influences the function of the Luger as we all know. We all have seen the 16" barrels with the forearm on said barrel; sold with scope mount or without, and can be kinda the berries to function, and yet keep the pistol together.

The top of the Luger can be a difficult place for adjustable sights, lost enough of them to have a basic respect for toggle speed environments during operation. That speed resides in the barrel too.

Open red dots are can be made pretty light, might be a candidate if they can handle the movement(gaff). Tube red dots as nice as they are, are heavier.

The old German optic sights(mini scope) on an Arty has some issues in my own opinion, might be doable for those that hope for such....not sure it will be easy.

There were folks here at one time that used Arty Lugers(Lonnie Z.) with red dots, went thru a lot of red dots before he found one that could handle the cycle of the 9mm artillery.......he used to shoot coyotes out of his garden as I recall.

I am blessed with a left master eye that has the oldest cataract. So the old time picture of a carbine with a scope and mount was kinda a compromise for me. It used the large flat behind the sideplate for a removeable mount. In my own way, I bonded a similar mounting system that has two precision pins so and securing mechanism that the scope/mount can be removed from the pistol. The scope or optics of the day sits to the left of the toggle, and up a ways for working the toggle during charging. I have not experimented with a stock on the pistol, only has a 12" narrow tapered(light) barrel. As a pistol, the optics will allow preciseness to placing rounds on a target at longer than semi normal pistol ranges.

Hope someday a professional pistol optic system will come out for a Luger, it will take some R&D............and some patience in operation as well as time at the machines to make something worthwhile. Has no interest to the collector, but us shooters are here too albeit in smaller numbers every year.

I think the barrel mounted optic will work, but lightness will be an asset. Guess one does have the 45acp slug weight working on your side though...........

FWIW

DonVoigt · 03-17-2018, 07:00 PM

A scope on a luger, ouch!
If you guys want to talk about that, please start another thread! Ugg!

Zorba · 03-17-2018, 09:39 PM

What? No Waffenampt?

Seriously, that is a thing of beauty!

Whisky · 03-19-2018, 08:54 AM

.
wow - pure beauty (please please please - a range report)

DonVoigt · 03-19-2018, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorba

What? No Waffenampt?

Seriously, that is a thing of beauty!

If it had a Waffen stamp, I could not afford it!

DonVoigt · 03-20-2018, 06:25 PM

Finally made it to the range.
45 degrees, windy, and light rain/mist- great day to stay inside.

But I had improvements to test on two shooters and the .45 to try out- so I did a little shooting.

The .45 works great. I only used 230 gr ball today. Loaded the 7 round mags with 5 rounds- the springs are really strong- so it was easier on "me" and the wood mag base.

Sights are typical luger- i.e. hard to see- especially on a rainy day shooting a black target.
But, the one "group" I fired and measured was about 3" and POI was 2" right and 2" low; which is close enough for me with iron sights.

I could probably do better on a bright, nice day!

One 50 ft. target picture below, the enlaged one with the circle shows the "group". The small - 9mm size- holes are from the other two lugers test fired on this outing.

Anyway, shooting a .45 luger is pretty cool, recoil is not bad, grips are fine. Eugene had fired about 200 rounds and I only fired 35 today. The pistol needs to be fired more to smooth it up and wear it in. I'm happy I chose the 1" longer barrel, I think it gives the pistol to a near perfect balance, not to mention a cool look.

One change/addition I'm going to suggest to Eugene is to put a loop on the magazine base for a lanyard; at $300 per mag - I don't want to drop one!

I will likely also upgrade to the Navy/target rear sight toggle Eugene is working on when they are ready, maybe even test a prototype for him. (Eugene, that is a hint.

)

LugerMan.com · 03-20-2018, 07:07 PM

Nice group, what was a distance you shot from ?
I do not see that in the post.

Magazine loop ? Drow me a picture i want to see that

DonVoigt · 03-20-2018, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LugerMan.com

Nice group, what was a distance you shot from ?
I do not see that in the post.

50 ft.

Edward Tinker · 03-20-2018, 08:22 PM

Nice write up Don, sounds like a keeper

DonVoigt · 03-20-2018, 09:00 PM

Thanks Ed, it is indeed a keeper.
Won't be a safe queen either.

LugerMan.com · 03-21-2018, 08:13 AM

I'd like to see more posts of shooting reports, for a change.

We did not make them to be safe queens, even so they can win a beauty contest, they were meant and build to be working guns.

Shoot on Don...

JTD · 03-21-2018, 09:01 AM

Good to hear that it ran smooth Don. Give it a good cleaning and BUY MORE BULLETS...

DonVoigt · 03-21-2018, 11:04 AM

Yes, got to buy more .45 ammo.
I'm shooting a hodge podge of what I have "in stock". I have some US military both ball and match that I have to dig out. Maybe a box of Remington, but all the ammo I have is 5 or 10 or 20 years old or older, so it will be more of an ammo test than a pistol test.

This outing was using the rest of a box of Blazer Brass 230 gr ball ammo.
I have some other odds and ends, but no need to go into any details until the pistol is broken in well and the weather is nicer for shooting- so I can do my part.

Eugene has used 3 or 4 or more brands/types of ammo, maybe he can comment- Rich was asking for details.

LugerMan.com · 03-21-2018, 12:24 PM

We ran following ammo:

Blazzer Brass
Blazzer Aluminum
Federal Brass
Federal Aluminum
Tula Ammo
Wolf Ammo
Fiocchi
Perfecta
Winchester
Seller and Bellot
Remington
UMC
PMC

Agula ( Problem)

And probably something else I can not remember.

It loved steel case and aluminum case, as it is harder then brass
And fast action needs something to grab on to .

It did not love Italian ammo, something to do with rim gap design.
Fiocci was better , Perfecta was worth.
We found out to late and some early guns may not run it well about first 8-10 that were out.
We fixed the problem on the next 10 goign out.
It was not a problem for other rounds, so if you see it, just avoid the ammo.

Agula had a very soft crimp on the bullet, and 2 or 3 out of the mag were jammed because they got pushed in the case to deep. when that happened we dropped Agula out of the test because we were afraid of excessive pressure.

If starting to use new ammo not listed above, test it by pulling un-fired cases out of the action.
And making sure that normal feeding during shooting does not sit the bullets deeper in the case.
If that happens, use different ammo.

cirelaw · 03-21-2018, 04:02 PM

Has anyone tried reloads in lugers?

DonVoigt · 03-21-2018, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

Has anyone tried reloads in lugers?

Yes, in 9mm and .30 all the time.
Many posts here on reloads, even a special section.

But that is another whole topic and thread.

cirelaw · 03-21-2018, 06:14 PM

Relevant as I was referring to the lugers discussed in this thread~

DavidJayUden · 03-21-2018, 09:38 PM

I'll try my favorite 200 gr. SWC cast loads in my .45 Luger one of these days soon, however I'm not expecting perfect function with that bullet design and slightly reduced speeds. I have shot some 230 Round Nose reloads thru it, and while it ran correctly they are just a factory duplicate load, so no big surprises there.

03-17-2018, 04:40 PM	#22
LugerMan.com User Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 377 Thanks: 91 Thanked 354 Times in 112 Posts	I agree, a luger Will loose some class if it has a scope mounted. Let along optical red dot. But, I belive if done with 100 year old traditions in mind, It can be done tastefully. Also I belive mounting a scope right on the barrel, is physically an easiest option, but will affect dinamics of the auction, and make glass parts participate in recoil, may not be the best way for long term use. Not to mention a need to alter the springs to accommodate for supper heavy barrel cycling. Anyone tried to install 16 inch on a P08 will know what I am talking about. __________________ Eugene@LugerMan.com Last edited by Edward Tinker; 03-19-2018 at 09:09 AM.

03-17-2018, 07:00 PM	#24
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	A scope on a luger, ouch! If you guys want to talk about that, please start another thread! Ugg! __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

03-20-2018, 06:25 PM	#28
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	Finally made it to the range. 45 degrees, windy, and light rain/mist- great day to stay inside. But I had improvements to test on two shooters and the .45 to try out- so I did a little shooting. The .45 works great. I only used 230 gr ball today. Loaded the 7 round mags with 5 rounds- the springs are really strong- so it was easier on "me" and the wood mag base. Sights are typical luger- i.e. hard to see- especially on a rainy day shooting a black target. But, the one "group" I fired and measured was about 3" and POI was 2" right and 2" low; which is close enough for me with iron sights. I could probably do better on a bright, nice day! One 50 ft. target picture below, the enlaged one with the circle shows the "group". The small - 9mm size- holes are from the other two lugers test fired on this outing. Anyway, shooting a .45 luger is pretty cool, recoil is not bad, grips are fine. Eugene had fired about 200 rounds and I only fired 35 today. The pistol needs to be fired more to smooth it up and wear it in. I'm happy I chose the 1" longer barrel, I think it gives the pistol to a near perfect balance, not to mention a cool look. One change/addition I'm going to suggest to Eugene is to put a loop on the magazine base for a lanyard; at $300 per mag - I don't want to drop one! I will likely also upgrade to the Navy/target rear sight toggle Eugene is working on when they are ready, maybe even test a prototype for him. (Eugene, that is a hint. ) Attached Thumbnails __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

03-20-2018, 07:07 PM	#29
LugerMan.com User Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 377 Thanks: 91 Thanked 354 Times in 112 Posts	Nice group, what was a distance you shot from ? I do not see that in the post. Magazine loop ? Drow me a picture i want to see that __________________ Eugene@LugerMan.com Last edited by Edward Tinker; 03-20-2018 at 08:23 PM.

03-20-2018, 09:00 PM	#32
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	Thanks Ed, it is indeed a keeper. Won't be a safe queen either. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

03-17-2018, 04:27 PM	#21
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Forget scopes, focus on how to mount a reflex optic "red dot" sight. I just watched a TV program about modern elephant hunting, and there in deepest, darkest Africa was a professional hunter with a big bore, English "best" double rifle. With an optic sight... I know they are great to shoot with but is nothing sacred? dju

03-17-2018, 06:52 PM	#23
Rick W. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 339 Thanks: 81 Thanked 359 Times in 198 Posts	And I thought that scoping a Luger was silly...........just kidding.... something that allows me a few more years of semi, almost respectable shooting skill always has my attention. As nice and easy as it looks, mounting an optical sight(usually a scope in most renditions) will try your patience as to functionality. More barrel weight/mass, more weight/mass on barrel, influences the function of the Luger as we all know. We all have seen the 16" barrels with the forearm on said barrel; sold with scope mount or without, and can be kinda the berries to function, and yet keep the pistol together. The top of the Luger can be a difficult place for adjustable sights, lost enough of them to have a basic respect for toggle speed environments during operation. That speed resides in the barrel too. Open red dots are can be made pretty light, might be a candidate if they can handle the movement(gaff). Tube red dots as nice as they are, are heavier. The old German optic sights(mini scope) on an Arty has some issues in my own opinion, might be doable for those that hope for such....not sure it will be easy. There were folks here at one time that used Arty Lugers(Lonnie Z.) with red dots, went thru a lot of red dots before he found one that could handle the cycle of the 9mm artillery.......he used to shoot coyotes out of his garden as I recall. I am blessed with a left master eye that has the oldest cataract. So the old time picture of a carbine with a scope and mount was kinda a compromise for me. It used the large flat behind the sideplate for a removeable mount. In my own way, I bonded a similar mounting system that has two precision pins so and securing mechanism that the scope/mount can be removed from the pistol. The scope or optics of the day sits to the left of the toggle, and up a ways for working the toggle during charging. I have not experimented with a stock on the pistol, only has a 12" narrow tapered(light) barrel. As a pistol, the optics will allow preciseness to placing rounds on a target at longer than semi normal pistol ranges. Hope someday a professional pistol optic system will come out for a Luger, it will take some R&D............and some patience in operation as well as time at the machines to make something worthwhile. Has no interest to the collector, but us shooters are here too albeit in smaller numbers every year. I think the barrel mounted optic will work, but lightness will be an asset. Guess one does have the 45acp slug weight working on your side though........... FWIW

03-17-2018, 09:39 PM	#25
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 951 Thanks: 776 Thanked 526 Times in 289 Posts	What? No Waffenampt? Seriously, that is a thing of beauty!

03-19-2018, 08:54 AM	#26
Whisky User Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 33 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 7 Posts	. wow - pure beauty (please please please - a range report)

03-20-2018, 08:22 PM	#31
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Nice write up Don, sounds like a keeper

03-21-2018, 08:13 AM	#33
LugerMan.com User Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 377 Thanks: 91 Thanked 354 Times in 112 Posts	No a safe queen I'd like to see more posts of shooting reports, for a change. We did not make them to be safe queens, even so they can win a beauty contest, they were meant and build to be working guns. Shoot on Don... __________________ Eugene@LugerMan.com

03-21-2018, 09:01 AM	#34
JTD User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 424 Thanks: 214 Thanked 407 Times in 148 Posts	Good to hear that it ran smooth Don. Give it a good cleaning and BUY MORE BULLETS...

03-21-2018, 11:04 AM	#35
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	Yes, got to buy more .45 ammo. I'm shooting a hodge podge of what I have "in stock". I have some US military both ball and match that I have to dig out. Maybe a box of Remington, but all the ammo I have is 5 or 10 or 20 years old or older, so it will be more of an ammo test than a pistol test. This outing was using the rest of a box of Blazer Brass 230 gr ball ammo. I have some other odds and ends, but no need to go into any details until the pistol is broken in well and the weather is nicer for shooting- so I can do my part. Eugene has used 3 or 4 or more brands/types of ammo, maybe he can comment- Rich was asking for details. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

03-21-2018, 12:24 PM	#36
LugerMan.com User Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 377 Thanks: 91 Thanked 354 Times in 112 Posts	We ran following ammo: Blazzer Brass Blazzer Aluminum Federal Brass Federal Aluminum Tula Ammo Wolf Ammo Fiocchi Perfecta Winchester Seller and Bellot Remington UMC PMC Agula ( Problem) And probably something else I can not remember. It loved steel case and aluminum case, as it is harder then brass And fast action needs something to grab on to . It did not love Italian ammo, something to do with rim gap design. Fiocci was better , Perfecta was worth. We found out to late and some early guns may not run it well about first 8-10 that were out. We fixed the problem on the next 10 goign out. It was not a problem for other rounds, so if you see it, just avoid the ammo. Agula had a very soft crimp on the bullet, and 2 or 3 out of the mag were jammed because they got pushed in the case to deep. when that happened we dropped Agula out of the test because we were afraid of excessive pressure. If starting to use new ammo not listed above, test it by pulling un-fired cases out of the action. And making sure that normal feeding during shooting does not sit the bullets deeper in the case. If that happens, use different ammo. __________________ Eugene@LugerMan.com

03-21-2018, 04:02 PM	#37
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Has anyone tried reloads in lugers?

03-21-2018, 06:14 PM	#39
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Relevant as I was referring to the lugers discussed in this thread~

03-21-2018, 09:38 PM	#40
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I'll try my favorite 200 gr. SWC cast loads in my .45 Luger one of these days soon, however I'm not expecting perfect function with that bullet design and slightly reduced speeds. I have shot some 230 Round Nose reloads thru it, and while it ran correctly they are just a factory duplicate load, so no big surprises there.