Simson Police Rework

MikeP · 12-03-2005, 06:40 PM

I drove 50 miles to look at a 1917 DWM-turned out to be a 1917 reworked to police use. "h" block, I believe. The clip was present over the sear but the guts were gone.

Barrel had Simson proofs but no serial number-the witness mark looks undesturbed. Excellent bore, 50% straw, 90+ blue, no pits. Markings all show no buffer damage. There is one number on the bottom of the barrel over the 8.83, it is the last digit of the gun number.

Old unnumbered grips-no unit marks.

Bad news is mis match trigger and repro mag.

I have not been keeping up on prices and also unsure of the efffect of the modification.

He wants $700 but I can't really justify that or am I out of touch.

The axel has the last two digits. don't see it on my own WW1 lugers.

Thnks for any speculation. No pictures.

Edward Tinker · 12-03-2005, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeP
He wants $700 but I can't really justify that or am I out of touch.

The axel has the last two digits. don't see it on my own WW1 lugers.

Thanks for any speculation. No pictures.

I wouldn't spend over 700 because of the above, that is a fairly major part to be a mismatch, plus the magazine. Axel marking started in the late 1930's, you see it on some and not on others.

But then keep in mind, average shooters are $600+

so...

Ed

Lyn Islaub · 12-04-2005, 07:32 PM

Ed,
Are the toggle pins on your Simsons serialized? I was under the impression if the pistol was originally manufactured, or reworked by Simson that the toggle pins were serialized. I had thought that the circle "S" police pistol I sold you, that we suspected was a Simson rework, had a serialized toggle pin too, but can't remember. Food for thought for your Simson book.
Lyn

Edward Tinker · 12-04-2005, 07:47 PM

I will check. If its a rework, my reading tells me that is early 1920's, so may not have the pin required to be numbered.

Let me go look at my two Simson's... One is marked (the police, which makes sense as it probably went to a police armory, and the 2nd does not have the last two of the serial number, but has 0 0 which I beleive is a slightly over-sized?

I have one rework that has a definate E/33 and a TP, none of the rest are obvious to Simson.

I actually believe the circle S is NOT a Simson rework, and if I can pin down when they were using 3/6, e/33 etc., then why would they use Circle S? I think it more likely a unit marking.

Ed

Lugerdoc · 12-05-2005, 10:07 AM

Costanzo (page 190) does call the "S in a circle" an early Simson rework or repair marking. Oversized PO8 rear axels are marked on the right (opposite side from serial) side from 0.05 to 0.20 mms oversized. I have a few of these left in stock @$10 each for anyone needing such. TH

Edward Tinker · 12-05-2005, 10:47 AM

Tom, I just beleive that Costanzo is wrong in this.
Why a circle S, yet eagle 33's and eagle 6's were used on reworks? It doesn't make sense. What I want to do is gather as much rework data as I can, show year, show rework acceptance, then bounce it against circle S known facts...

Ed

12-03-2005, 06:40 PM	#1
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	Simson Police Rework I drove 50 miles to look at a 1917 DWM-turned out to be a 1917 reworked to police use. "h" block, I believe. The clip was present over the sear but the guts were gone. Barrel had Simson proofs but no serial number-the witness mark looks undesturbed. Excellent bore, 50% straw, 90+ blue, no pits. Markings all show no buffer damage. There is one number on the bottom of the barrel over the 8.83, it is the last digit of the gun number. Old unnumbered grips-no unit marks. Bad news is mis match trigger and repro mag. I have not been keeping up on prices and also unsure of the efffect of the modification. He wants $700 but I can't really justify that or am I out of touch. The axel has the last two digits. don't see it on my own WW1 lugers. Thnks for any speculation. No pictures.

12-04-2005, 07:47 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I will check. If its a rework, my reading tells me that is early 1920's, so may not have the pin required to be numbered. Let me go look at my two Simson's... One is marked (the police, which makes sense as it probably went to a police armory, and the 2nd does not have the last two of the serial number, but has 0 0 which I beleive is a slightly over-sized? I have one rework that has a definate E/33 and a TP, none of the rest are obvious to Simson. I actually believe the circle S is NOT a Simson rework, and if I can pin down when they were using 3/6, e/33 etc., then why would they use Circle S? I think it more likely a unit marking. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-05-2005, 10:07 AM	#5
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Costanzo (page 190) does call the "S in a circle" an early Simson rework or repair marking. Oversized PO8 rear axels are marked on the right (opposite side from serial) side from 0.05 to 0.20 mms oversized. I have a few of these left in stock @$10 each for anyone needing such. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-05-2005, 10:47 AM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Tom, I just beleive that Costanzo is wrong in this. Why a circle S, yet eagle 33's and eagle 6's were used on reworks? It doesn't make sense. What I want to do is gather as much rework data as I can, show year, show rework acceptance, then bounce it against circle S known facts... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-04-2005, 07:32 PM	#3
Lyn Islaub Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 435 Thanks: 3 Thanked 152 Times in 72 Posts	Ed, Are the toggle pins on your Simsons serialized? I was under the impression if the pistol was originally manufactured, or reworked by Simson that the toggle pins were serialized. I had thought that the circle "S" police pistol I sold you, that we suspected was a Simson rework, had a serialized toggle pin too, but can't remember. Food for thought for your Simson book. Lyn