Haenel Magazine Design

Steve D · 11-26-2011, 01:13 PM

Much has been written about the Haenel magazine, but I have yet to see an author or researcher address the reason why the front of this distinctive magazine hangs out of the pistol.

Does anyone have an idea why after more than 40 years of Luger production, Hugo Schmeisser and Haenel changed the basic look of the magazine? Was it necessary to make the new spring fit square with the rounds and still retain the original capacity?

I suppose war time expediency trumps any design elegance.

rivieraranch · 11-26-2011, 01:36 PM

Perhaps it was easier to withdraw from the pistol.

FNorm · 11-26-2011, 03:56 PM

I'll go with the new spring design.

FN

Vlim · 11-26-2011, 06:02 PM

The straight cut helps to leave enough material to pin the base to the tube through the center of the button. Also it is cut at a straight 90 degree angle, so easier to manufacture.

Since the magazine was introduced and designed well before WW2, the war itself played no role in the design.

Apart from that it works. Functionality and cost price was probably more important than looks in those days.

John Sabato · 11-30-2011, 07:06 PM

90 degree cut as easier to manufacture would have been my contribution, but VLIM beat me to it!

sheepherder · 11-30-2011, 07:43 PM

I would say economy of materials is more likely than ease of manufacture...With a 90º cut, there is less waste of the tubing...

You could probably measure the two different cuts and figure out how many magazines could be cut from a 5' magazine tube...and there would probably be one more mag using the 90º cut than the angled cut...

...Hypothetically speaking...

G.T. · 11-30-2011, 10:18 PM

Hi To all, Haenel had round coil mag springs early in their manufacture period, but when the tube was extended, also the spring became a box type... I think mainly to accomadate the new springs length, and shape, and not to forget function... there was probably material savings also.. as the follower cap was eliminated, and finally the aluminum bottoms became plastic... Best to all, til...lat'r...GT....

hgreer2 · 11-30-2011, 11:41 PM

I asked my grandfather-in-law, he said he screwed up and after in went into production, it was too late.

Harry

ithacaartist · 12-01-2011, 01:07 AM

I cannot speak about the spring situation, but c'mon, think about it: A Luger mag, non-Haenel style has two angled cuts, they are not the same angle, but their angles swing in the same direction off the perpendicular. Lay a couple end-to-end, in sequence, and you will see that it would actually eat up more material to accommodate a straight cut! Optimal material saving accomplished if the angles of cuts, in succession, is alternated; in this arrangement the only drops would be a piece from each end of the length of tube stock. This approach would work for either style of mag to save material.

G.T. · 12-01-2011, 01:25 AM

Actually the tubes are the same length if measured at the rear spine.. the big difference, is one type was two pieces of stamped sheet steel, and the other one piece, and according to some, later a cold drawn formed tube, or an extrusion that required no trim or flash removal.. so if you look at start to finish, the later mags probably were not as material demanding .. but I think the trade off is, they ( the later mags) were actually more machining and labor intensive... A good plan gone wrong so to speak... Typical war time German ideaology...

..best to all, til...lat'r...GT

Lugerdoc · 12-02-2011, 12:07 PM

GT, Originally I thought that the 90d bottom cut had something to do with the extrusion process, but now I see that his earlier nickeled extruded mags that are pinned at the rear and are angle cut as are the folded mags. So you may be correct stating the cause to be the change in springs, but the fact that the retaining pin does not have to go into the mag well and can be peened over, seems to me to be of great benefit both in reliability and ease of production. TH

Norme · 12-02-2011, 05:07 PM

Haenel- Schmeisser magazines are discussed at length (and I mean at length, 12 pages!) in "Pistole Parabellum" by Görtz/Sturgess. To begin with, they are not extruded. They are stamped, folded, and almost invisibly welded along their spines. With the introduction of the stronger zig-zag spring the base retaining pin had to be "relocated to an almost central position in the finger grips which eliminated the possibility that the base might work loose through non-symetrical leverage exerted by the spring. This relocation of the base pin to the center line of the magazine body necessitated the lower end of the magazine body being reprofiled to a right angle". I hope this helps. Regards, Norm

11-26-2011, 01:13 PM	#1
Steve D User Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 23 Thanks: 7 Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts	Haenel Magazine Design Much has been written about the Haenel magazine, but I have yet to see an author or researcher address the reason why the front of this distinctive magazine hangs out of the pistol. Does anyone have an idea why after more than 40 years of Luger production, Hugo Schmeisser and Haenel changed the basic look of the magazine? Was it necessary to make the new spring fit square with the rounds and still retain the original capacity? I suppose war time expediency trumps any design elegance. Attached Thumbnails

11-30-2011, 07:06 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	90 degree cut as easier to manufacture would have been my contribution, but VLIM beat me to it! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-30-2011, 07:43 PM	#6
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	I would say economy of materials is more likely than ease of manufacture...With a 90º cut, there is less waste of the tubing... You could probably measure the two different cuts and figure out how many magazines could be cut from a 5' magazine tube...and there would probably be one more mag using the 90º cut than the angled cut... ...Hypothetically speaking... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

11-30-2011, 10:18 PM	#7
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	spring change... Hi To all, Haenel had round coil mag springs early in their manufacture period, but when the tube was extended, also the spring became a box type... I think mainly to accomadate the new springs length, and shape, and not to forget function... there was probably material savings also.. as the follower cap was eliminated, and finally the aluminum bottoms became plastic... Best to all, til...lat'r...GT....

12-01-2011, 01:25 AM	#10
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	mag tube design... Actually the tubes are the same length if measured at the rear spine.. the big difference, is one type was two pieces of stamped sheet steel, and the other one piece, and according to some, later a cold drawn formed tube, or an extrusion that required no trim or flash removal.. so if you look at start to finish, the later mags probably were not as material demanding .. but I think the trade off is, they ( the later mags) were actually more machining and labor intensive... A good plan gone wrong so to speak... Typical war time German ideaology... ..best to all, til...lat'r...GT

11-26-2011, 01:36 PM	#2
rivieraranch User Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 101 Thanks: 4 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Perhaps it was easier to withdraw from the pistol.

11-26-2011, 03:56 PM	#3
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	I'll go with the new spring design. FN

11-26-2011, 06:02 PM	#4
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	The straight cut helps to leave enough material to pin the base to the tube through the center of the button. Also it is cut at a straight 90 degree angle, so easier to manufacture. Since the magazine was introduced and designed well before WW2, the war itself played no role in the design. Apart from that it works. Functionality and cost price was probably more important than looks in those days.

11-30-2011, 11:41 PM	#8
hgreer2 Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 309 Thanks: 1 Thanked 29 Times in 20 Posts	I asked my grandfather-in-law, he said he screwed up and after in went into production, it was too late. Harry

12-01-2011, 01:07 AM	#9
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,346 Thanks: 7,273 Thanked 2,578 Times in 1,365 Posts	I cannot speak about the spring situation, but c'mon, think about it: A Luger mag, non-Haenel style has two angled cuts, they are not the same angle, but their angles swing in the same direction off the perpendicular. Lay a couple end-to-end, in sequence, and you will see that it would actually eat up more material to accommodate a straight cut! Optimal material saving accomplished if the angles of cuts, in succession, is alternated; in this arrangement the only drops would be a piece from each end of the length of tube stock. This approach would work for either style of mag to save material.

12-02-2011, 12:07 PM	#11
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	GT, Originally I thought that the 90d bottom cut had something to do with the extrusion process, but now I see that his earlier nickeled extruded mags that are pinned at the rear and are angle cut as are the folded mags. So you may be correct stating the cause to be the change in springs, but the fact that the retaining pin does not have to go into the mag well and can be peened over, seems to me to be of great benefit both in reliability and ease of production. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-02-2011, 05:07 PM	#12
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Haenel- Schmeisser magazines are discussed at length (and I mean at length, 12 pages!) in "Pistole Parabellum" by Görtz/Sturgess. To begin with, they are not extruded. They are stamped, folded, and almost invisibly welded along their spines. With the introduction of the stronger zig-zag spring the base retaining pin had to be "relocated to an almost central position in the finger grips which eliminated the possibility that the base might work loose through non-symetrical leverage exerted by the spring. This relocation of the base pin to the center line of the magazine body necessitated the lower end of the magazine body being reprofiled to a right angle". I hope this helps. Regards, Norm