New Broomhandle (M1930)

TheRomanhistorian · 07-09-2013, 11:49 PM

So, I picked this up for $499 from a shop in Texas. I knew the bore was shot out (lead pipe smooth) but the previous owner had changed springs and I stripped and cleaned it before having a local gunsmith check it. He warned me to not use 7.62 Tokarev ammunition but seemed pleased when I said I knew not to do that and we had a good chat (great chap in Tacoma).

I then went upstairs to the range to test it. I fired 18 rounds (18 hit the paper but I lost a 19th when it rolled over on to the floor in front of my firing bench, doh). I was only firing at about 15/16 feet just to test function and reliability. I was aiming for the centre bullseye so it does fire a bit high and to the left in some cases but it's a shooter. Maybe one day I'll get it relined.

DavidJayUden · 07-10-2013, 12:01 AM

Broom Closet in Florida...

alvin · 07-10-2013, 06:53 AM

So, this one's price is still 2x higher than a brand new Norinco Tokarev.

It is a transitional variation between Bolo and M1930, can be classified as M1929. The factory had no specific designation for it, just another 'Zenhlader-Pistole', but a 'Neues Modell' (new model), a salt blued gun, made only in that year. Contrary to common believe, M1930's signature change was not the 132mm barrel, the signature change was the universal safety lever. M1929 New Model had 132mm barrel as well. Looks like most of these were exported to Nationalist China, this one should be an instance. Some instances even carry Shanghai Police property engraving. Fewer instances were sold in the Western. So it was scarce in the U.S. until 1980s.

If it works, no need to work on it. Not only save $$, but also preventing the possibility of turning a reliable gun into a unreliable one, IMO.

M1929:

TheRomanhistorian · 07-10-2013, 10:39 PM

I learn something new everyday and I've always enjoyed your Broomhandle posts, Alvin! I looked up the serial number but wasn't sure whether it was a Chinese export or not. I suspected, from the bore, that it probably was. So the differences between the M1929 and the M1930 was primarily the safety?

In this case, I shall leave it be then.

alvin · 07-11-2013, 06:30 AM

If it has importer stamp, it's imported from China in 1980s. If it does not have that stamp, there are other possibilities. For example, it's from Latin America, or the importer stamp was erased by previous owner, etc. In previous posts, I mentioned that C96 was NOT a sidearm in Chinese context, it's an infantry weapon, and China had more soldiers than guns, so guns were passed from one organization to another. When it finally retired, it's in unusual shape if applying Western usage standard on it, statistically.

M1929 and M1930 has other difference. Parts numbering difference. But that's minor. The major delta is safety difference, and related difference on hammer, sear.

Paladinpainter · 07-11-2013, 06:53 AM

Michael: Looks like you've picked up a fun shooter. It also looks like some of your bullets are going through the target sideways. I've had a number of shooters lined. It does help accuracy and hasnt made them less reliable.
Enjoy!
John

TheRomanhistorian · 07-11-2013, 11:23 AM

Thanks Alvin, there are no importer marks (not even a mark of country of origin).

John, I noticed that as well. That may be something for the future but I'm glad I have recommendations of where to go.

07-09-2013, 11:49 PM	#1
TheRomanhistorian User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 301 Thanks: 170 Thanked 88 Times in 64 Posts	New Broomhandle (M1930) So, I picked this up for $499 from a shop in Texas. I knew the bore was shot out (lead pipe smooth) but the previous owner had changed springs and I stripped and cleaned it before having a local gunsmith check it. He warned me to not use 7.62 Tokarev ammunition but seemed pleased when I said I knew not to do that and we had a good chat (great chap in Tacoma). I then went upstairs to the range to test it. I fired 18 rounds (18 hit the paper but I lost a 19th when it rolled over on to the floor in front of my firing bench, doh). I was only firing at about 15/16 feet just to test function and reliability. I was aiming for the centre bullseye so it does fire a bit high and to the left in some cases but it's a shooter. Maybe one day I'll get it relined. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Michael Nos morituri te salutant - Supposed saying of the gladiators to the emperor ('We, who are about to die, salute you.') 'We are the lantern bearers, my friend; for us to keep something burning, to carry what light we can forward into the darkness and the wind' - From Rosemary Sutcliff's The Lantern Bearers

07-10-2013, 06:53 AM	#3
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	So, this one's price is still 2x higher than a brand new Norinco Tokarev. It is a transitional variation between Bolo and M1930, can be classified as M1929. The factory had no specific designation for it, just another 'Zenhlader-Pistole', but a 'Neues Modell' (new model), a salt blued gun, made only in that year. Contrary to common believe, M1930's signature change was not the 132mm barrel, the signature change was the universal safety lever. M1929 New Model had 132mm barrel as well. Looks like most of these were exported to Nationalist China, this one should be an instance. Some instances even carry Shanghai Police property engraving. Fewer instances were sold in the Western. So it was scarce in the U.S. until 1980s. If it works, no need to work on it. Not only save $$, but also preventing the possibility of turning a reliable gun into a unreliable one, IMO. M1929: Attached Thumbnails

07-10-2013, 10:39 PM	#4
TheRomanhistorian User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 301 Thanks: 170 Thanked 88 Times in 64 Posts	I learn something new everyday and I've always enjoyed your Broomhandle posts, Alvin! I looked up the serial number but wasn't sure whether it was a Chinese export or not. I suspected, from the bore, that it probably was. So the differences between the M1929 and the M1930 was primarily the safety? In this case, I shall leave it be then. __________________ Michael Nos morituri te salutant - Supposed saying of the gladiators to the emperor ('We, who are about to die, salute you.') 'We are the lantern bearers, my friend; for us to keep something burning, to carry what light we can forward into the darkness and the wind' - From Rosemary Sutcliff's The Lantern Bearers

07-11-2013, 11:23 AM	#7
TheRomanhistorian User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 301 Thanks: 170 Thanked 88 Times in 64 Posts	Thanks Alvin, there are no importer marks (not even a mark of country of origin). John, I noticed that as well. That may be something for the future but I'm glad I have recommendations of where to go. __________________ Michael Nos morituri te salutant - Supposed saying of the gladiators to the emperor ('We, who are about to die, salute you.') 'We are the lantern bearers, my friend; for us to keep something burning, to carry what light we can forward into the darkness and the wind' - From Rosemary Sutcliff's The Lantern Bearers

07-10-2013, 12:01 AM	#2
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Broom Closet in Florida...

07-11-2013, 06:30 AM	#5
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	If it has importer stamp, it's imported from China in 1980s. If it does not have that stamp, there are other possibilities. For example, it's from Latin America, or the importer stamp was erased by previous owner, etc. In previous posts, I mentioned that C96 was NOT a sidearm in Chinese context, it's an infantry weapon, and China had more soldiers than guns, so guns were passed from one organization to another. When it finally retired, it's in unusual shape if applying Western usage standard on it, statistically. M1929 and M1930 has other difference. Parts numbering difference. But that's minor. The major delta is safety difference, and related difference on hammer, sear.

07-11-2013, 06:53 AM	#6
Paladinpainter User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Vermont Posts: 64 Thanks: 14 Thanked 45 Times in 15 Posts	Michael: Looks like you've picked up a fun shooter. It also looks like some of your bullets are going through the target sideways. I've had a number of shooters lined. It does help accuracy and hasnt made them less reliable. Enjoy! John