Gun show inspections

[cdmech]

I was looking at $500 broomhandle today at a local gun show. The seller said he never shot it or took it apart. I didn't think the trigger felt "right" and asked if I could take it apart to see if the gun had mismatched parts but the seller was real hesitant about that so I thanked him and moved on.
I know I shouldn't expect much for a $500 shooter (that had a smooth bore), but how do you guys that sell at shows deal with buyers who ask to take apart guns to inspect before they commit to buy? Maybe I committed a breach of gun show etiquette.
Marc

[Edward Tinker]

I would not let anybody take a broom handle apart at a gun show, they are a bear to get back together and I have no idea their expertise. A Luger, p38, nambu, ppk, I can take apart.

A broom, no thanks...

[DavidJayUden]

The problem with Brooms is that they can be bloody difficult to re-assemble unless you've done it a few times. Had he been proficient he should have offered to do it for you. I know I would if someone waved $500 under my nose. But all in all it's not bad form for you top ask, and it's his business to decilne. MHO.
dju

[alvin]

When people say "I don't know it's matching or not", it's mismatched. Same is true for online auction site, if seller does not explicitly says "all matching", normal expectation is a mismatched gun.

[lugerholsterrepair]

I would handle it like this..Give me the 500. If you hand me back the pistol in one piece after inspecting it and don't want it..I will give you your 500 back. If not.. you bought yourself a pistol. That way the ball is in the buyers court..if he feels confident he can re assemble the pistol he would have no trouble handing over 500 to the seller. Everybodys happy.

I agree with Ed's take though..C-96"s are somewhat like a Polish tractor transmission..easy to take apart, not so easy to get together!

[cirelaw]

I don't even bother looking for nice lugers or any lugers for that matter at our local gunshow! My last was here in Port St Lucie, Florida and not one single luger. Beef jerky and ammo. Wasn't worth the seven dollars to get in!~~~Eric

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

I would handle it like this..Give me the 500. If you hand me back the pistol in one piece after inspecting it and don't want it..I will give you your 500 back. If not.. you bought yourself a pistol.

I would agree, but only if cash...No checks, and fork over the state sales tax too...(I'm pretty sure only a dealer would set up a table, which means small business)...

I've taken mine apart dozens of times, swapped parts (Thank You, Alvin!), and trouble-shot problems...But...That sear & frame stop lock can be a real nuisance...

I would not hold it against an owner to refuse dis-assembly at a gun show...There was a pistol I dis-assembled not long ago, that the previous owner advised me to take apart in bed, under white sheets...He was right...Sproing!!!...

That said, I would take a chance on a $500 C96 or M30 [not a Bolo]...But then, I have a box of parts to play with...But the smooth bore begs for a price cut...

[LugerVern]

Once many years ago, without thinking I instinctively took apart a gun at a show I was very familiar with, all in just a few seconds, the owner almost had a heart attack.

Funny to me but, that guy was seriously upset!

I have never done it since without asking, and I always promise to return it to original.

I know several gun dealers who couldn't field strip a gun if their life depended on it. You can spot them pretty easily, the guns will have the signs of being wiped with oil but never disassembled.

Take pity on your dealer, be nice and most will let you take them apart if you show some competency

( Funny) I will never forget the look on that guys face when he turned around and saw the gun in parts and me looking down the barrel with one eye!

Vern

[skeeter4206]

I was recently looking somewhere on line and they were considering a broome handle a class III weapon. It commented about it being a fully automatic weapon. Is this correct about the brrome handles?

[DavidJayUden]

There was a class 3 full auto version, a schnellfeuer (not even close, I know). Fired from a closed bolt and not much of a weapon of war, but neat, and of course, expensive now.
Getting back to the original topic, how about getting a business card from the seller and ask to meet up later to closer examine the gun in question? And I agree that a $500 broom at a gunshow is going to be a Chinese import and well mis-matched. But possibly a good core to send to the BroomCloset for a facelift. Fun shooters and great attention getters at the range.
dju

[Edward Tinker]

Originally Posted by postino

I would agree, but only if cash...No checks, and fork over the state sales tax too...[SIZE="1"](I'm pretty sure only a dealer would set up a table, which means small business)...

what?

I have had many tables, and I'm sure not a dealer?

[cirelaw]

This is a true story. I'm long time friend with our local Sherrif. I went years ago to our local gunshow together. He wore civilian clothes. He left to make a check-in to his headquaters and was approached in the parking with a man selling an automatic handgun. He pretended to go along with the deal. Smart thinking he told the seller he could go to the inside teller machine and return with the cash. In side he found one of the under cover ATF agent that I learned patrol every gunshow and met him again in the parking lot while the agent was watching. As the deal was made he was arrested. A gunshow is the last place to do anything illegal!! ~~~Eric

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

what?

I have had many tables, and I'm sure not a dealer?

Do you collect sales tax? Do you have an FFL? In my state, there are few gun shows, and I have yet to meet a handgun seller who did not have a business...Selling guns, we're talking about here...

IIRC, you're in Pennsylvania...NYS requires a separate permit to sell handguns, in addition to the small business license, and FFL...Probably other requirements as well, I'm only familiar with the ones that affect me directly...You must also be a NYS resident...Or have a handgun shipped to an FFL in your state...

I can sell a handgun to a valid NYS permit holder, but now I have to go through the NICS check, which means an FFL holder...And the transfer has to be reported to my local pistol permit office within 10 days, and I must have a purchase coupon from the buyer, which he gets from his pistol permit office, with all the information on it...IOW, it has to be registered before I can physically let him take delivery of it...

Here's some more requirements...From the SAFE FAQ...

http://www.governor.ny.gov/nysafeact/gun-owners

Q: What types of private handgun, rifle or shotgun sales or transfers are subject to background check requirements?

A: Starting on March 15, 2013, all private handgun, rifle or shotgun sales or transfers (with the exception of those sales or transfers to and between certain family members) will require a background check of the buyer.


Q: As a private individual seller/transferor, how do I conduct a background check on a buyer or transferee?

A: The background check must be performed by a dealer. Federal law and guidelines govern the process that dealers must follow if they choose to conduct a background check for a private sale.

You, the seller/transferor, bring the weapon to any dealer that agrees to facilitate the sale or transfer. The dealer conducts an instant background check of the buyer/transferee—the same check run for all retail firearm sales. The dealer may not charge more than $10 for this service.

You may visit the dealer along with the buyer/transferee and complete the sale or transfer together, or you may leave your firearm with the dealer to complete the sale or transfer on your behalf.


Some more...I have two cap & ball revolvers mounted on the wall of my PC room here; perfectly legal, no permit required, K-Mart used to sell them...But if I have cap, ball, and powder for them, I am required to have them added to my pistol permit...With NICS check...

Welcome to New York! We hope you brought money!

[cdmech]

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

I would handle it like this..Give me the 500. If you hand me back the pistol in one piece after inspecting it and don't want it..I will give you your 500 back. If not.. you bought yourself a pistol.

I wish I had thought of this. I had the cash in my pocket, and wanted to buy the pistol (a bolo), but I didn't want another "project." I already own a few of those. I am capable of breaking it down and putting it back together, but obviously the seller doesn't know me from Adam. This was the first time I've asked anyone at a gun show if I could, and since I seemed to have suprised him so, I wondered if that's not something you ask.
BTW, here in CA the FFL's are required to collect the sales tax from private sales.
Marc

[cdmech]

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

But possibly a good core to send to the BroomCloset for a facelift. dju

Anyone have recent work done by the Broom Closet? I would like to send another one to them but can only find a phone number, no Internet presence.
Marc

[alvin]

Originally Posted by skeeter4206

I was recently looking somewhere on line and they were considering a broome handle a class III weapon. It commented about it being a fully automatic weapon. Is this correct about the brrome handles?

The darn thing is called "Schnellfeuer". It's the last variation of Mauser C96. Most were sold to China. But it's a gun produced in relatively high volume of near six digit, so they still show up on market from time to time today.

From some memoirs, it's selective firing, but it's still mainly used as a semi-auto. In emergency the operator could fire it in short-burst mode, it's superior and useful. For example, a running guy being chased by an enemy in close quarter at night, accurate aiming on the chaser was impossible, so he fired 3-4 rounds at the rough direction towards the chaser. In this scenario, it's much more effective than semi-auto.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by alvin

The darn thing is called "Schnellfeuer"....it's a gun produced in relatively high volume of near six digit, so they still show up on market from time to time today.

There was one for sale at Waffen Bavaria in Munchen back in the mid-80's when I was there; price was ~$750 USD, IIRC...

From some memoirs, it's selective firing, but it's still mainly used as a semi-auto. In emergency the operator could fire it in short-burst mode, it's superior and useful. For example, a running guy being chased by an enemy in close quarter at night, accurate aiming on the chaser was impossible, so he fired 3-4 rounds at the rough direction towards the chaser. In this scenario, it's much more effective than semi-auto.

I thought I'd read that it was used in WW I as a 'trench sweeper', with stock attached, by the Sturm Battalions...

[alanint]

Schnellfeuers were reissued to the Waffen SS in World War 2. Although many were made, correct, registered and transferrable models are a rarety here in the US. They usually command upwards of $10,000 when offered for sale.

Eric, I must have missed something in your gun show story. It is not illegal to sell an automatic pistol outside a gun show in Florida. Unless you meant "fully automatic". Florida does not require you to be an FFL to rent a table and sell guns at local gun shows. Many people wishing to liquidate personal collections take this route. If you do this routinely, (buy and sell as a gun show regular) without an FFL and/or Tax ID, you are more likely to get a visit from the IRS than from the ATF.

[skeeter4206]

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=346632456

heres the link to the select fire broom handle.

[alvin]

Originally Posted by postino

There was one for sale at Waffen Bavaria in Munchen back in the mid-80's when I was there; price was ~$750 USD, IIRC...

The production volume was near six digit. The price varies from time to time. Fully transferable ones are rare in U.S. and are expensive. A few were sold above $10,000 recently (including a rare Nickl). But I saw some of dealer-only samples offered online did not sell at $6000. Since it's a class III weapon, many collectors have to bypass it to avoid some class III related headache. There is an extra "legal fee" associated with this type of gun. I believe same is true for other class III guns.