Rust Blue and Evaporust

steelcase · 08-29-2012, 10:35 AM

Hi Everyone I'm new to this forum and in the process of refinishing my first luger. Is is not a collector gun it's a pure shooter.
I am in the process of rebluing a 1920 DWM Luger. The finish was beyond bad. At some time in the pass it looks like someone used a "Brillo" pad to clean the rust. I have soaked all the parts to be blued in Evaporust it came out well. Will one possible problem. Evaporust leaves the metal a medium grey. I've been reading this is a carbon film. Do I need to steel wool the entire gun to bright metal? It flash rusts in minutes if the grey metal is not oiled. I've rust blued before with great success but never after Evaporust. Any comments are appreciated.

mrerick · 08-29-2012, 11:46 AM

Hi Ronald, and welcome to the forum.

Recently, a very good article on Rust Bluing was published on this forum:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...ight=rust+blue

It shows a member's experience rust bluing for the first time.

I believe you'll find that the metal surfaces have to be in the white, and absolutly clean (free of any dirt, oils or other contaminants) prior to starting the rust blue process. I don't know the effect of "Evaporust". This is an article that discusses it's characteristics:

http://www.evapo-rust.co.nz/How%20It%20Works.htm

This article states:

"After treatment, the part can be water rinsed for painting, plating, or other type of corrosion protective coating. If left un-rinsed, the fluid will dry on the treated surface to a hard, short-term corrosion resistant coating with no corrosion removal properties."

I checked out the web, and found writeups about it. It is a "Chelation" agent that chemically combines with iron oxides, and then is supposed to go into solution. This discussion gets into the details:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/a...p/t-69793.html

They speculate that it contains "ethylenediaminetetraacetate or EDTA". or "EDDS ethylenediamine NN Disuccinic acid". In either case, the iron oxide apparently ends up in compound as a residue, which is what you may be seeing on the metal surface.

Apparently, molasses can do the same kind of chelation, but is less selective (affects more than steel).

According to this study, once metals are chelated, they are very difficult to remove from waste water.

So... the surface of your metal may have chelated iron oxide on it. I'm not sure how to remove it after it dries, but you might try washing it again and drying it immediately.

As to rust bluing, I'd do some experiments on something other than your pistol first. Use the evapo-rust. Let the surface dry. Wash it. De-oil it and try rusting the steel per the article.

Marc

Terry Tiell · 08-29-2012, 11:47 AM

I did the exact same thing you are now doing just a few months ago, you need to polish the metal afterwards to get rid of that dull gray color. I used a fine steel wire wheel on a drill to polish it up and then hit it with gun oil till I was ready to rust blue it.

lugerholsterrepair · 08-29-2012, 01:05 PM

I believe it's called carding.

nukem556 · 08-29-2012, 02:31 PM

Carding is actually the fine wire brushing done after each rusting,boiling cycle. But yeah, you want to be back down to bare shiny steel after the Evaporust before beginning rust bluing. The stuff works pretty darn well....it takes about 24 hours, but it'll even remove Parkerizing down to bare steel.

steelcase · 08-30-2012, 06:31 PM

Thanks everyone for the advise. Looks like a little more work.

08-29-2012, 10:35 AM	#1
steelcase User Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 14 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Rust Blue and Evaporust Hi Everyone I'm new to this forum and in the process of refinishing my first luger. Is is not a collector gun it's a pure shooter. I am in the process of rebluing a 1920 DWM Luger. The finish was beyond bad. At some time in the pass it looks like someone used a "Brillo" pad to clean the rust. I have soaked all the parts to be blued in Evaporust it came out well. Will one possible problem. Evaporust leaves the metal a medium grey. I've been reading this is a carbon film. Do I need to steel wool the entire gun to bright metal? It flash rusts in minutes if the grey metal is not oiled. I've rust blued before with great success but never after Evaporust. Any comments are appreciated.

08-29-2012, 11:46 AM	#2
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,907 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts	Hi Ronald, and welcome to the forum. Recently, a very good article on Rust Bluing was published on this forum: http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...ight=rust+blue It shows a member's experience rust bluing for the first time. I believe you'll find that the metal surfaces have to be in the white, and absolutly clean (free of any dirt, oils or other contaminants) prior to starting the rust blue process. I don't know the effect of "Evaporust". This is an article that discusses it's characteristics: http://www.evapo-rust.co.nz/How%20It%20Works.htm This article states: "After treatment, the part can be water rinsed for painting, plating, or other type of corrosion protective coating. If left un-rinsed, the fluid will dry on the treated surface to a hard, short-term corrosion resistant coating with no corrosion removal properties." I checked out the web, and found writeups about it. It is a "Chelation" agent that chemically combines with iron oxides, and then is supposed to go into solution. This discussion gets into the details: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/a...p/t-69793.html They speculate that it contains "ethylenediaminetetraacetate or EDTA". or "EDDS ethylenediamine NN Disuccinic acid". In either case, the iron oxide apparently ends up in compound as a residue, which is what you may be seeing on the metal surface. Apparently, molasses can do the same kind of chelation, but is less selective (affects more than steel). According to this study, once metals are chelated, they are very difficult to remove from waste water. So... the surface of your metal may have chelated iron oxide on it. I'm not sure how to remove it after it dries, but you might try washing it again and drying it immediately. As to rust bluing, I'd do some experiments on something other than your pistol first. Use the evapo-rust. Let the surface dry. Wash it. De-oil it and try rusting the steel per the article. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

08-29-2012, 11:47 AM	#3
Terry Tiell User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: The Fascist State of Maryland Posts: 224 Thanks: 55 Thanked 26 Times in 14 Posts	I did the exact same thing you are now doing just a few months ago, you need to polish the metal afterwards to get rid of that dull gray color. I used a fine steel wire wheel on a drill to polish it up and then hit it with gun oil till I was ready to rust blue it. __________________ Trying to redo grand dads Luger the best I can.

08-29-2012, 01:05 PM	#4
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,766 Thanks: 4,891 Thanked 3,121 Times in 1,432 Posts	I believe it's called carding. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-29-2012, 02:31 PM	#5
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	Carding is actually the fine wire brushing done after each rusting,boiling cycle. But yeah, you want to be back down to bare shiny steel after the Evaporust before beginning rust bluing. The stuff works pretty darn well....it takes about 24 hours, but it'll even remove Parkerizing down to bare steel.

08-30-2012, 06:31 PM	#6
steelcase User Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 14 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks everyone for the advise. Looks like a little more work.