Commercial 1939 Banner

JVH · 11-29-2018, 03:28 PM

Serial # 6117w. Crown over U on the left side receiver near Serial number. Eagle/N on left upper side of breech block. Strawed small parts. Number 17 on inside grip panels, safety lever and bar, take down lever, trigger, side plate, extracter and toggle links, toggle pin. E/655 on upper left barrel, struck lightly showing half of eagle and 65. Made in Germany on bottom of barrel. Mismatched relieved firing pin #20. unmarked trigger bar. Reciever and areas on the barrel finnish have a golden hue. Toggle train is very plum colored. Did "Made in Germany" only mean U.S. sales/import? Who was a likely importer? I know this is a very late 1939 pistol from researching Still's Third Reich and Costanza's World of Lugers. Also curious about the C/U and E/N proofs.

gunbugs · 12-04-2018, 02:14 AM

The area where the military proofs would usually be on the right side of the upper receiver looks suspicious. Almost like it has been welded over and refinished. The blue overall just does not look "right" to me. But that's just my opinion, and I've only got a couple years in the Luger game. And we all know what opinions are worth....

JVH · 12-04-2018, 07:36 AM

Gunbugs, Good catch you are absolutely correct.

mrerick · 12-04-2018, 09:57 AM

The Crown/U proof is from the Oberndorf proof house. The E/N proof is for a commercial nitro proof.

I have one of these built on a 1938 receiver, and midway through the "U" block, in .30 Luger caliber.

They are quite rare since Mauser was fulfilling huge military contracts when these receivers were made.

I'm not sure that they were all made in the year of their receiver, since they may well have been made from parts held back from military contracts for one reason or another. The finish variation you see on this one is evidence of that. In particular the nickle alloy content and salt bluing chemical balance that lead to the more plum color of the toggle train.

Also, by 1939, for example, a throwback to Imperial and Weimer eras, should the Crown over letter proofs still be be in use?

The "U" "V" and "W" blocks were reserved for a number of commercial contracts by Mauser.

I can't explain the "Made in Germany" barrel stamp except that these may have been made for export to the USA. The US import laws we deal with today are different from the earlier ones that only required country of origin markings. Mauser made Lugers for other countries like Sweden were not stamped in this way.

I know that Don and Joop document these commercial guns pretty thoroughly in their book on the Mauser Parabellum. The one I have in the "U" block is very late in the series, and probably was made for Swedish export.

gunbugs · 12-04-2018, 11:25 PM

Plus the font on the "7" on the Toggle train serial number appears different than the other serial numbers.

JVH · 12-05-2018, 02:30 AM

Gunbugs, Right again.

11-29-2018, 03:28 PM	#1
JVH User Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 10 Posts	Commercial 1939 Banner Serial # 6117w. Crown over U on the left side receiver near Serial number. Eagle/N on left upper side of breech block. Strawed small parts. Number 17 on inside grip panels, safety lever and bar, take down lever, trigger, side plate, extracter and toggle links, toggle pin. E/655 on upper left barrel, struck lightly showing half of eagle and 65. Made in Germany on bottom of barrel. Mismatched relieved firing pin #20. unmarked trigger bar. Reciever and areas on the barrel finnish have a golden hue. Toggle train is very plum colored. Did "Made in Germany" only mean U.S. sales/import? Who was a likely importer? I know this is a very late 1939 pistol from researching Still's Third Reich and Costanza's World of Lugers. Also curious about the C/U and E/N proofs. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by JVH; 11-29-2018 at 04:42 PM.

12-04-2018, 09:57 AM	#4
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	The Crown/U proof is from the Oberndorf proof house. The E/N proof is for a commercial nitro proof. I have one of these built on a 1938 receiver, and midway through the "U" block, in .30 Luger caliber. They are quite rare since Mauser was fulfilling huge military contracts when these receivers were made. I'm not sure that they were all made in the year of their receiver, since they may well have been made from parts held back from military contracts for one reason or another. The finish variation you see on this one is evidence of that. In particular the nickle alloy content and salt bluing chemical balance that lead to the more plum color of the toggle train. Also, by 1939, for example, a throwback to Imperial and Weimer eras, should the Crown over letter proofs still be be in use? The "U" "V" and "W" blocks were reserved for a number of commercial contracts by Mauser. I can't explain the "Made in Germany" barrel stamp except that these may have been made for export to the USA. The US import laws we deal with today are different from the earlier ones that only required country of origin markings. Mauser made Lugers for other countries like Sweden were not stamped in this way. I know that Don and Joop document these commercial guns pretty thoroughly in their book on the Mauser Parabellum. The one I have in the "U" block is very late in the series, and probably was made for Swedish export. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-04-2018, 02:14 AM	#2
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 659 Thanks: 365 Thanked 1,178 Times in 394 Posts	The area where the military proofs would usually be on the right side of the upper receiver looks suspicious. Almost like it has been welded over and refinished. The blue overall just does not look "right" to me. But that's just my opinion, and I've only got a couple years in the Luger game. And we all know what opinions are worth....

12-04-2018, 07:36 AM	#3
JVH User Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 10 Posts	Gunbugs, Good catch you are absolutely correct.

12-04-2018, 11:25 PM	#5
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 659 Thanks: 365 Thanked 1,178 Times in 394 Posts	Plus the font on the "7" on the Toggle train serial number appears different than the other serial numbers.

12-05-2018, 02:30 AM	#6
JVH User Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 10 Posts	Gunbugs, Right again.