DWM, 1900 Portuguese "test"

Blind Hog · 06-24-2010, 05:19 PM

DWM, 1900 model, serial 18861, no proofing whatsoever. This pistol has been in my collection for 16 years.

Several years ago I posted it to the 'net and at that time received numerous interesting comments as to what it is and where it may fit in Luger production. Based on information from the books by Charles Kenyon "Lugers at Random" ©1969 and John Walter "The Luger Book" ©1991, it may be a Luger with Portuguese connections. This is due to the number '62' stamped on the left front of receiver.

Kenyon on page 52 states, "Some examples in the 18000-19000 serial range are stamped with an additional "issue" number on the left side of the receiver. These are weapons purchased by Portugal for military test".

Walter on page 231 states, "A hundred 1900-pattern pistols (18801-18900?) were acquired for trials, one survivor bearing the commercial serial number 18861 that dates it to the very end of 1903 or beginning of 1904. Guns dispatched to the US Army in April 1904 began at 22401. The Portguguese test pieces bore issue numbers - 18861 displays no. 62 - and the distinctive encircled-triangle property mark is also evident".

Also, I found a chart prepared by Mr. David Eash on Portuguese Luger contracts and their respective serial ranges.

I hope that Forum members will find this Luger interesting and comments are appreciated. Not seeking blessings as to authenticity....it is what it is....at least a very nice 1900 Commercial.

Edward Tinker · 06-24-2010, 05:39 PM

well, mine isn't a porty, but its only 139 younger than yours

and one just a bit older....

18531

18990

I have a Brazilian, and would like to pick up a portuguese at some point.

ed

Blind Hog · 06-24-2010, 05:54 PM

Ed, thank youi.

I believe Dwight has 3 'test' numbers including this one listed in his commercial production database.
Wish there was more information available on these Lugers.

FNorm · 06-24-2010, 06:11 PM

Very nice. like WOW!

FN

Ron Wood · 06-24-2010, 06:30 PM

Francis,
As you probably know, there are a couple of threads going on Jan Still’s forum about Portuguese Lugers. You might post your ABSOLUTELY OUTSTANDING PORTUGUESE (possibly) over there and see how many knickers you can bunch up in a knot from envy (I am presently extracting mine from parts unmentionable).

ken d · 06-25-2010, 04:56 PM

FIW

Number 84 going on Gunbroker now.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=175021706

Ken D

Blind Hog · 06-25-2010, 06:16 PM

Ken,

Thank you very much, I will save the photos and auction results.

Ron Wood · 06-26-2010, 12:31 AM

Take a look at the front sight band and the fact that it is a 6" barrel. Something doesn't seem quite right.

ken d · 06-27-2010, 04:51 PM

Is there a consensus on the correct barrell length; 4 3/4 or 6 in?

Ken D

LugerVern · 06-27-2010, 06:45 PM

The barrel on Number 84 is a replacement, no witness mark and incorrect rear barrel band. This is in addition to what Ron said.

We may never know exactly what these gun are, this one has been messed with quite a bit, and that doesn't aid research

Vern

ken d · 06-28-2010, 04:30 PM

Vern:

Thanks, I suspected as much.

Ken D

sheepherder · 07-08-2010, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LugerVern

The barrel on Number 84 is a replacement, no witness mark and incorrect rear barrel band. This is in addition to what Ron said.

We may never know exactly what these gun are, this one has been messed with quite a bit, and that doesn't aid research

Vern

If so, someone got taken for $6,950.00...

Hmmm...No tool marks in frame ears...Is that typical of 1900 series Lugers???

MFC · 07-08-2010, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

Hmmm...No tool marks in frame ears...Is that typical of 1900 series Lugers???

I beleive the fit and finish on the M1900 is the best of all Luger production. I'm sure it was very time consuming, and some steps were dropped on later models.

06-24-2010, 05:19 PM	#1
Blind Hog User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: South Carolina & North Carolina, Cape Hatteras, Outer Banks--Live on a sandbar, 30 miles out in ocean. Posts: 37 Thanks: 5 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	DWM, 1900 Portuguese "test" DWM, 1900 model, serial 18861, no proofing whatsoever. This pistol has been in my collection for 16 years. Several years ago I posted it to the 'net and at that time received numerous interesting comments as to what it is and where it may fit in Luger production. Based on information from the books by Charles Kenyon "Lugers at Random" ©1969 and John Walter "The Luger Book" ©1991, it may be a Luger with Portuguese connections. This is due to the number '62' stamped on the left front of receiver. Kenyon on page 52 states, "Some examples in the 18000-19000 serial range are stamped with an additional "issue" number on the left side of the receiver. These are weapons purchased by Portugal for military test". Walter on page 231 states, "A hundred 1900-pattern pistols (18801-18900?) were acquired for trials, one survivor bearing the commercial serial number 18861 that dates it to the very end of 1903 or beginning of 1904. Guns dispatched to the US Army in April 1904 began at 22401. The Portguguese test pieces bore issue numbers - 18861 displays no. 62 - and the distinctive encircled-triangle property mark is also evident". Also, I found a chart prepared by Mr. David Eash on Portuguese Luger contracts and their respective serial ranges. I hope that Forum members will find this Luger interesting and comments are appreciated. Not seeking blessings as to authenticity....it is what it is....at least a very nice 1900 Commercial. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Francis Blind Hog aka: VIS35 "Even a Blind Hog sometimes finds an acorn"

06-24-2010, 05:39 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	well, mine isn't a porty, but its only 139 younger than yours and one just a bit older.... 18531 18990 I have a Brazilian, and would like to pick up a portuguese at some point. ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-24-2010, 05:54 PM	#3
Blind Hog User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: South Carolina & North Carolina, Cape Hatteras, Outer Banks--Live on a sandbar, 30 miles out in ocean. Posts: 37 Thanks: 5 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Ed, thank youi. I believe Dwight has 3 'test' numbers including this one listed in his commercial production database. Wish there was more information available on these Lugers. __________________ Francis Blind Hog aka: VIS35 "Even a Blind Hog sometimes finds an acorn"

06-24-2010, 06:30 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Francis, As you probably know, there are a couple of threads going on Jan Still’s forum about Portuguese Lugers. You might post your ABSOLUTELY OUTSTANDING PORTUGUESE (possibly) over there and see how many knickers you can bunch up in a knot from envy (I am presently extracting mine from parts unmentionable). __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-25-2010, 06:16 PM	#7
Blind Hog User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: South Carolina & North Carolina, Cape Hatteras, Outer Banks--Live on a sandbar, 30 miles out in ocean. Posts: 37 Thanks: 5 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Ken, Thank you very much, I will save the photos and auction results. __________________ Francis Blind Hog aka: VIS35 "Even a Blind Hog sometimes finds an acorn"

06-24-2010, 06:11 PM	#4
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Very nice. like WOW! FN

06-25-2010, 04:56 PM	#6
ken d Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: louisville ky Posts: 277 Thanks: 31 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	FIW Number 84 going on Gunbroker now. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=175021706 Ken D

06-26-2010, 12:31 AM	#8
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Take a look at the front sight band and the fact that it is a 6" barrel. Something doesn't seem quite right. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-27-2010, 04:51 PM	#9
ken d Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: louisville ky Posts: 277 Thanks: 31 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	Is there a consensus on the correct barrell length; 4 3/4 or 6 in? Ken D

06-27-2010, 06:45 PM	#10
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	The barrel on Number 84 is a replacement, no witness mark and incorrect rear barrel band. This is in addition to what Ron said. We may never know exactly what these gun are, this one has been messed with quite a bit, and that doesn't aid research Vern Attached Thumbnails

06-28-2010, 04:30 PM	#11
ken d Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: louisville ky Posts: 277 Thanks: 31 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	Vern: Thanks, I suspected as much. Ken D