Luger Carbines

4thUSMC · 10-20-2009, 11:19 PM

New guy here. Thank you in advance to all the experts in this forum. I have learned a great deal in a short amount of time. Can anyone tell me about Luger carbines? Are they truly made that way or are they parts gun that were slapped together? I am looking at a cabine with a 16" barell and wooden buttslock (not like an artillery stock but more traditional). The barell has a wood grip that extends almost the entire length. It comes with custom hosters for the gun and stock and also leather pouches for the mags. How much is something like this worth and is it a truly collector's item or is it a frankengun?

MFC · 10-21-2009, 12:31 AM

Hi Rick,
What you described is a FrankenLuger. I saw this one recently listed on Gunbroker I beleive. It's only a shooter. It has a 16" barrel so it will be legal according to BATF. Anything shorter is considered a short barrel rifle and is illegal. Artillery, Navy and carbines originally issued/sold with a stock are exempt from this law.
Original Luger carbines have shorter barrels (11 3/4") and the forearm is connected to the front of the frame, not the barrel. The rear sight is connected to the rear of the barrel in the same location as the Artillery.
Here is a real one; Not mine. I stole the picture from the forum.

4thUSMC · 10-21-2009, 01:09 AM

Is it worth the $1900 he is asking for?

MFC · 10-21-2009, 01:11 AM

Not to me.

John Sabato · 10-21-2009, 07:34 AM

I think before a near estimate can be provided we must see some photos. But in the mean time here are facts for the Basis of Estimate (BOE)

A shooter Luger = $600-800
A 16inch Barrel kit has sold in the last 6 months for about $100-150
Reproduction Stocks $125-200
Labor by Gunsmith to change and Headspace the new barrel and make it work reliably $150-200
Shipping - at least $50
Profit to the seller ? must be considered, but who knows how much?

The custom leather? depends on the usefulness and the quality.

This should give you some idea on why the $1900 is probably a little steep...

Edward Tinker · 10-21-2009, 09:14 AM

I had one of these, minus a stock; bought it for $1100 and after a few months tried to re-sell it; never could and finally parted out the top part and sold the bottom part with a 4 inch barrel; I do not beleive I made my money back.

So, everything depends on quality and if you want it.

Mine did not shoot right with the ammo I was using; using stronger more powerful ammo is not the best way to go. Most likely a slower burning powder. The original 1900 carbines had a helper to make the action work, i do not know what they used for the 1920 carbines, I do not believe they used any helper springs to make the action work better.

Ed

Ron Smith · 10-21-2009, 09:46 AM

If this is the one you are referring to. The description / story is creative, and just plain BS at best.

This Carbine is made up from a Numrich Arms catalog kit sold back in the 70's and 80's. If I recall correctly, they sold the barrel, forearm and stock for under $100.

They don't work very well, if at all, because the forearm was attached to the barrel which impaired proper cycling. Save your money.

Original 1920 "reworked" Carbines similar to the one in the photo Mike posted sell for well over 10 times the asking price on this pawn shop special. Note the difference in the quality of construction in the two photos.

Ron

4thUSMC · 10-21-2009, 07:38 PM

Yes, that is indeed the gun minus the leather goods. I know the story he gave was total B.S. and know enough about Lugers to realize the barell was a recent made item. You all have convinced me enough to not pursue this FrankenLuger for what he is asking for. Gentlemen, OORAH and Semper Fi !

Ron Smith · 10-21-2009, 08:09 PM

The leather accessories actually out class the pistol itself.

Lugerdoc · 10-22-2009, 09:38 AM

Ed T, You are corrrect that the 1920s Carbines did not have the forward assist spring, but the support for the forearm was still welded/brazed to the front of the frame. If anyone need a new GPC barrel with attached forearm, I have one available @$100 postpaid. TH

Ray · 10-22-2009, 02:18 PM

Speaking of forends, I was lucky enough to pick up this piece
some years ago. A fellow Luger collector has informed me that
it is not an 1902 forend, the stock being just a bit longer. This
forend features all the metal accessories, the checkering is nice,
and it's rear curvature would seem to fit a long frame.
Perhaps it belongs to the 1920 class of carbines. My interest
in the piece has waned since retirement, but it is refreshing to
know that a forum member considers it in the $300 minimum
range.

ken d · 10-22-2009, 06:16 PM

Rick:

Have you looked at this:

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIte...Item=142844901

I hve no connection with this

Regards Ken D

sheepherder · 10-22-2009, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken d

Rick:

Have you looked at this:

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIte...Item=142844901

I hve no connection with this

Regards Ken D

...

...LugerMan is at it again...

DWM Luger Carbine 1920 with wood Stock 9mm Mauser

Boy, I sure hope that "9mm Mauser" is a typo...

Ice · 10-22-2009, 07:19 PM

I am not familiar with LugerMan but his reproduction photos look pretty good. I'm not interested but couldn't afford it anyway. What is the problem with this guy anyway?

Charlie

sheepherder · 10-22-2009, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice

I am not familiar with LugerMan but his reproduction photos look pretty good. I'm not interested but couldn't afford it anyway. What is the problem with this guy anyway?

Charlie

JungleJim had a long thread here documenting his problems with LugerMan...and others chimed in with their own horror stories...Lemme see if I can find it...

Here we go...

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=21822

10-20-2009, 11:19 PM	#1
4thUSMC User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 12 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Luger Carbines New guy here. Thank you in advance to all the experts in this forum. I have learned a great deal in a short amount of time. Can anyone tell me about Luger carbines? Are they truly made that way or are they parts gun that were slapped together? I am looking at a cabine with a 16" barell and wooden buttslock (not like an artillery stock but more traditional). The barell has a wood grip that extends almost the entire length. It comes with custom hosters for the gun and stock and also leather pouches for the mags. How much is something like this worth and is it a truly collector's item or is it a frankengun?

10-21-2009, 12:31 AM	#2
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Hi Rick, What you described is a FrankenLuger. I saw this one recently listed on Gunbroker I beleive. It's only a shooter. It has a 16" barrel so it will be legal according to BATF. Anything shorter is considered a short barrel rifle and is illegal. Artillery, Navy and carbines originally issued/sold with a stock are exempt from this law. Original Luger carbines have shorter barrels (11 3/4") and the forearm is connected to the front of the frame, not the barrel. The rear sight is connected to the rear of the barrel in the same location as the Artillery. Here is a real one; Not mine. I stole the picture from the forum. Attached Images __________________ Mike C. Last edited by MFC; 10-21-2009 at 01:17 AM.

10-21-2009, 01:11 AM	#4
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Not to me. __________________ Mike C.

10-21-2009, 07:34 AM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I think before a near estimate can be provided we must see some photos. But in the mean time here are facts for the Basis of Estimate (BOE) A shooter Luger = $600-800 A 16inch Barrel kit has sold in the last 6 months for about $100-150 Reproduction Stocks $125-200 Labor by Gunsmith to change and Headspace the new barrel and make it work reliably $150-200 Shipping - at least $50 Profit to the seller ? must be considered, but who knows how much? The custom leather? depends on the usefulness and the quality. This should give you some idea on why the $1900 is probably a little steep... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-21-2009, 09:14 AM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I had one of these, minus a stock; bought it for $1100 and after a few months tried to re-sell it; never could and finally parted out the top part and sold the bottom part with a 4 inch barrel; I do not beleive I made my money back. So, everything depends on quality and if you want it. Mine did not shoot right with the ammo I was using; using stronger more powerful ammo is not the best way to go. Most likely a slower burning powder. The original 1900 carbines had a helper to make the action work, i do not know what they used for the 1920 carbines, I do not believe they used any helper springs to make the action work better. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-21-2009, 01:09 AM	#3
4thUSMC User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 12 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Is it worth the $1900 he is asking for?

10-21-2009, 09:46 AM	#7
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	If this is the one you are referring to. The description / story is creative, and just plain BS at best. This Carbine is made up from a Numrich Arms catalog kit sold back in the 70's and 80's. If I recall correctly, they sold the barrel, forearm and stock for under $100. They don't work very well, if at all, because the forearm was attached to the barrel which impaired proper cycling. Save your money. Original 1920 "reworked" Carbines similar to the one in the photo Mike posted sell for well over 10 times the asking price on this pawn shop special. Note the difference in the quality of construction in the two photos. Ron Attached Thumbnails __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

10-21-2009, 07:38 PM	#8
4thUSMC User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 12 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yes, that is indeed the gun minus the leather goods. I know the story he gave was total B.S. and know enough about Lugers to realize the barell was a recent made item. You all have convinced me enough to not pursue this FrankenLuger for what he is asking for. Gentlemen, OORAH and Semper Fi !

10-21-2009, 08:09 PM	#9
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	The leather accessories actually out class the pistol itself. __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

10-22-2009, 09:38 AM	#10
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Ed T, You are corrrect that the 1920s Carbines did not have the forward assist spring, but the support for the forearm was still welded/brazed to the front of the frame. If anyone need a new GPC barrel with attached forearm, I have one available @$100 postpaid. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-22-2009, 02:18 PM	#11
Ray Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 126 Thanks: 2 Thanked 37 Times in 16 Posts	carbine forend Speaking of forends, I was lucky enough to pick up this piece some years ago. A fellow Luger collector has informed me that it is not an 1902 forend, the stock being just a bit longer. This forend features all the metal accessories, the checkering is nice, and it's rear curvature would seem to fit a long frame. Perhaps it belongs to the 1920 class of carbines. My interest in the piece has waned since retirement, but it is refreshing to know that a forum member considers it in the $300 minimum range. Attached Thumbnails

10-22-2009, 06:16 PM	#12
ken d Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: louisville ky Posts: 277 Thanks: 31 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	Rick: Have you looked at this: http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIte...Item=142844901 I hve no connection with this Regards Ken D

10-22-2009, 07:19 PM	#14
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	I am not familiar with LugerMan but his reproduction photos look pretty good. I'm not interested but couldn't afford it anyway. What is the problem with this guy anyway? Charlie