Colt 1911 .45 Auto

barr44 · 05-03-2016, 03:43 PM

I know this is a little off the page so to speak, but I suspect that several of the folks on this forum are familiar with a variety of firearms.
I like my lugers, but have an interest in the old Colts as well.
I recently picked up a Colt 1911 that is possibly a commercial model or was used by one of the foreign countries. It has an importer's mark "Essex Arms" out of Vt.
I would like to determine exactly what I have and have included a couple of image files.
I didn't see much need in joining another forum just for a little info, since I'm sure there is probably more than a few of you folks that have a lot of knowledge in many areas.
Thanks for any info that is forthcoming.
barr44

John Sabato · 05-03-2016, 03:56 PM

Essex Arms was not a firearms importer, but were a USA based 1911 frame manufacturer back in the 1970's and 80's. I owned an Essex Arms frame myself back then and used it with both .45 caliber surplus parts, and a .22 Colt conversion unit. It was well made, but required a lot of fitting to get the mainspring housing to fit. Once fitted it was fine.

alanint · 05-03-2016, 05:28 PM

John is right on. Essex produced only frames, meant to be sold to gunsmiths and home builders who wanted to take advantage of the readily available surplus parts back then. I had an Essex framed pistol, with the balance being all GI National Match, which shot pretty well.

In essence, (or Essex?), it's a parts pistol.

Edward Tinker · 05-03-2016, 06:21 PM

I'd like either larger or close ups of the markings on the slide and the essex - I had a 45 built up on a essex frame once, can't remember how it looked...

sheepherder · 05-03-2016, 09:29 PM

Weren't Essex one of the first of the cast steel frames???

Colt M1911A1 slide; that's a plus. Thumb safety looks GI. If all the parts are OEM GI, it could be a good buy.

The finger clearance reliefs in the Essex frame always struck me as odd...More than a 1911 but not as much as a 1911A1...

ithacaartist · 05-03-2016, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

John is right on. Essex produced only frames, meant to be sold to gunsmiths and home builders who wanted to take advantage of the readily available surplus parts back then. I had an Essex framed pistol, with the balance being all GI National Match, which shot pretty well.

In essence, (or Essex?), it's a parts pistol.

Well, that would explain the color difference between the finish on the slide and that of the frame!

Sergio Natali · 05-04-2016, 02:55 AM

Barry

ESSEX parts are hardly known here where I live, but I assume they can be good parts for the money, if assembled properly.
I see that you've got a COLT frame and my question would be whether that gun was built right.
Essex guns (and parts of) have always been considered rather cheap, and most of the times used for assembling cheapish 1911.
Personally I would much prefer to spend the same money on a decent second hand COLT 1991, or a SPRINGFIELD or a REMINGTON R1
Parts gun are also called "frankenstein guns" and they call them like that for a reason.

My two bob.

Cheers.

John Sabato · 05-04-2016, 06:21 AM

I concur with Sergio, When I "built" my Essex, it was to create a .22 & .45 shooter as inexpensively as possible (Cheap!). They were cast as has been described above, but still very functional, yet inexpensive frames. I would only consider them "shooter" class guns.

Ed, Here is an enlargement of the markings on both the frame and Colt slide.

CJS57 · 05-04-2016, 06:31 AM

The slide is a Colt manufactured armorer's replacement slide.

barr44 · 05-04-2016, 10:23 AM

I knew I could get some good information from you folks, I find that there is a wealth of knowledge amongst all of you. I want to thank all of you and I do appreciate your replies.
I picked this up at an auction and wasn't really sure what it was, but it looked like a 1911, so I ended up with it.
Well, it looks like a 1911 so I can hang it on the wall or I'll get some of the guys at the gun club to look it over and see if it is safe to shoot.
Again, I want to thank you folks!
Thanks, barr44

alanint · 05-04-2016, 12:32 PM

At the right price, I would love to have this gun as a shooter. The Colt slide alone is worth some money. More so, if the barrel and bushing are also Colt.

I would get some GI grips on it, (I have always hated the look of Pachmayers).

John Sabato · 05-04-2016, 01:43 PM

barr44,

Unless this frame/slide has visible cracks in it, the chances of it being unsafe to shoot are pretty slim. The 1911's were made to have a comfortable "fit" so that parts were interchangeable. Last time I looked, .45 ACP ammo at Walmart (in non-reloadable aluminum cases) was about $15.00 a box of 50. Or $21.00 a box with reloadable brass cases. Take it out and enjoy it!

DonVoigt · 05-04-2016, 06:16 PM

Many 1911 clones are available new for under $600 at many shops or on line.

Essex frames are functional, but problematic if building for the first time- GI parts don't always fit quite right.

They were the "cheapest" frames back in the 60's-70s.

Sergio Natali · 05-05-2016, 05:49 AM

ESSEX parts are considered very cheap, even though after a little fitting they work okay maybe they are not really worth buying, as I'm sure that, especially in the States, a good second hand COLT can be easily found for the same money.

John Sabato · 05-05-2016, 09:56 AM

The young man who keeps my lawn mowed (for the last 12 years) just recently purchased a Rock Island Armory 1911 new in the box, with nice wooden grips for only $430.00 if that is any sway to your decision...

alanint · 05-05-2016, 11:40 AM

I bought a new-in box Rock Island 1911 for $350, out the door for my son at a recent gun show. The fit, finish and accuracy are more than satisfactory for that price point.

rhuff · 05-05-2016, 01:47 PM

The RIA 1911s have quite a following of owners. Apparently, they are a lot of bang for the buck. Some folks upgrade some of the internal parts, others just shoot them as is.

barr44 · 05-05-2016, 07:49 PM

Don't know if it really tells much but here is another image, close-up of lettering and the upper portion of the barrel which has a serial no. with the same first 3 numbers as the s.n. on the slide. It also has .45 Auto. I would like to think since the serial numbers are similar that would indicate the barrel would also be a Colt product. There is some wear on the internals, but without firing it everything seems to function properly. I will get it checked out by someone who is familiar with these guns before I shoot it. If nothing else it looks like I have a shooter grade Colt Essex and unfortunately I paid more than what it is worth. That's what happens if one doesn't know for sure what one is bidding on. Another lesson learned.
Thanks again for all of the good info.
barr44

sheepherder · 05-05-2016, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barr44

...it looks like I have a shooter grade Colt Essex and unfortunately I paid more than what it is worth...

If you got what you wanted then the money was well spent.

kurusu · 05-06-2016, 02:55 AM

The wear pattern on the muzzle end of the barrel suggests a fitted bushing. You may very well have a very accurate pistol in your hands.

05-03-2016, 03:43 PM	#1
barr44 User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: york co., va Posts: 151 Thanks: 27 Thanked 35 Times in 21 Posts	Colt 1911 .45 Auto I know this is a little off the page so to speak, but I suspect that several of the folks on this forum are familiar with a variety of firearms. I like my lugers, but have an interest in the old Colts as well. I recently picked up a Colt 1911 that is possibly a commercial model or was used by one of the foreign countries. It has an importer's mark "Essex Arms" out of Vt. I would like to determine exactly what I have and have included a couple of image files. I didn't see much need in joining another forum just for a little info, since I'm sure there is probably more than a few of you folks that have a lot of knowledge in many areas. Thanks for any info that is forthcoming. barr44 Attached Thumbnails

05-03-2016, 03:56 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Essex Arms was not a firearms importer, but were a USA based 1911 frame manufacturer back in the 1970's and 80's. I owned an Essex Arms frame myself back then and used it with both .45 caliber surplus parts, and a .22 Colt conversion unit. It was well made, but required a lot of fitting to get the mainspring housing to fit. Once fitted it was fine. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-03-2016, 09:29 PM	#5
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,441 Times in 2,329 Posts	Weren't Essex one of the first of the cast steel frames??? Colt M1911A1 slide; that's a plus. Thumb safety looks GI. If all the parts are OEM GI, it could be a good buy. The finger clearance reliefs in the Essex frame always struck me as odd...More than a 1911 but not as much as a 1911A1... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

05-04-2016, 02:55 AM	#7
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Barry ESSEX parts are hardly known here where I live, but I assume they can be good parts for the money, if assembled properly. I see that you've got a COLT frame and my question would be whether that gun was built right. Essex guns (and parts of) have always been considered rather cheap, and most of the times used for assembling cheapish 1911. Personally I would much prefer to spend the same money on a decent second hand COLT 1991, or a SPRINGFIELD or a REMINGTON R1 Parts gun are also called "frankenstein guns" and they call them like that for a reason. My two bob. Cheers. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

05-04-2016, 06:21 AM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I concur with Sergio, When I "built" my Essex, it was to create a .22 & .45 shooter as inexpensively as possible (Cheap!). They were cast as has been described above, but still very functional, yet inexpensive frames. I would only consider them "shooter" class guns. Ed, Here is an enlargement of the markings on both the frame and Colt slide. Attached Thumbnails __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-03-2016, 05:28 PM	#3
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	John is right on. Essex produced only frames, meant to be sold to gunsmiths and home builders who wanted to take advantage of the readily available surplus parts back then. I had an Essex framed pistol, with the balance being all GI National Match, which shot pretty well. In essence, (or Essex?), it's a parts pistol.

05-03-2016, 06:21 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	I'd like either larger or close ups of the markings on the slide and the essex - I had a 45 built up on a essex frame once, can't remember how it looked...

05-04-2016, 06:31 AM	#9
CJS57 User Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 224 Thanks: 0 Thanked 81 Times in 41 Posts	The slide is a Colt manufactured armorer's replacement slide.

05-04-2016, 10:23 AM	#10
barr44 User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: york co., va Posts: 151 Thanks: 27 Thanked 35 Times in 21 Posts	I knew I could get some good information from you folks, I find that there is a wealth of knowledge amongst all of you. I want to thank all of you and I do appreciate your replies. I picked this up at an auction and wasn't really sure what it was, but it looked like a 1911, so I ended up with it. Well, it looks like a 1911 so I can hang it on the wall or I'll get some of the guys at the gun club to look it over and see if it is safe to shoot. Again, I want to thank you folks! Thanks, barr44

05-04-2016, 12:32 PM	#11
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	At the right price, I would love to have this gun as a shooter. The Colt slide alone is worth some money. More so, if the barrel and bushing are also Colt. I would get some GI grips on it, (I have always hated the look of Pachmayers).

05-04-2016, 01:43 PM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	barr44, Unless this frame/slide has visible cracks in it, the chances of it being unsafe to shoot are pretty slim. The 1911's were made to have a comfortable "fit" so that parts were interchangeable. Last time I looked, .45 ACP ammo at Walmart (in non-reloadable aluminum cases) was about $15.00 a box of 50. Or $21.00 a box with reloadable brass cases. Take it out and enjoy it! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-04-2016, 06:16 PM	#13
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Many 1911 clones are available new for under $600 at many shops or on line. Essex frames are functional, but problematic if building for the first time- GI parts don't always fit quite right. They were the "cheapest" frames back in the 60's-70s. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

05-05-2016, 05:49 AM	#14
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	ESSEX parts are considered very cheap, even though after a little fitting they work okay maybe they are not really worth buying, as I'm sure that, especially in the States, a good second hand COLT can be easily found for the same money. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

05-05-2016, 09:56 AM	#15
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	The young man who keeps my lawn mowed (for the last 12 years) just recently purchased a Rock Island Armory 1911 new in the box, with nice wooden grips for only $430.00 if that is any sway to your decision... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-05-2016, 11:40 AM	#16
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	I bought a new-in box Rock Island 1911 for $350, out the door for my son at a recent gun show. The fit, finish and accuracy are more than satisfactory for that price point.

05-05-2016, 01:47 PM	#17
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,288 Thanks: 2,702 Thanked 971 Times in 716 Posts	The RIA 1911s have quite a following of owners. Apparently, they are a lot of bang for the buck. Some folks upgrade some of the internal parts, others just shoot them as is.

05-05-2016, 07:49 PM	#18
barr44 User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: york co., va Posts: 151 Thanks: 27 Thanked 35 Times in 21 Posts	Another image Don't know if it really tells much but here is another image, close-up of lettering and the upper portion of the barrel which has a serial no. with the same first 3 numbers as the s.n. on the slide. It also has .45 Auto. I would like to think since the serial numbers are similar that would indicate the barrel would also be a Colt product. There is some wear on the internals, but without firing it everything seems to function properly. I will get it checked out by someone who is familiar with these guns before I shoot it. If nothing else it looks like I have a shooter grade Colt Essex and unfortunately I paid more than what it is worth. That's what happens if one doesn't know for sure what one is bidding on. Another lesson learned. Thanks again for all of the good info. barr44 Attached Thumbnails

05-06-2016, 02:55 AM	#20
kurusu User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,225 Thanks: 2,679 Thanked 930 Times in 509 Posts	The wear pattern on the muzzle end of the barrel suggests a fitted bushing. You may very well have a very accurate pistol in your hands.