New .30 barrel...

[PRD1]

My post WW1 .30 rebuild shooter would benefit from a new barrel, I think - the original bore is pretty rough, and, though it shoots well, it would not be happy with cast bullets, and the headspace is a bit long.
Problem is, finding a new-condition barrel in .30. SARCO currently lists new, late-production .30 barrels in the white, but I'm not sure that they are fully interchangeable in original production arms.
I would be willing to install the barrel myself - I have the proper tools and experience, but would have to acquire a chamber reamer and, if available, headspace gauge.
On the other hand, I'm not averse to handing the job off to someone who does this as a regular thing, if a new-condition barrel is available, and the wait time isn't geological (I know how custom gunsmithing works, having been there, myself).
And, in a related vein, where might I find proper FMJ bullets for the .30 Luger? I have a dwindling supply of Lapua bullets, but can't find anything of the correct weight and diameter currently available.
Any guidance and help appreciated!

PRD1 - mhb - MIke

[DonVoigt]

Excellent .30 take off barrels are abundant.
I would contact G.T. on this forum.
He has the know how, tools, and the reamer and gages for .30 luger.

He has also had Swiss .30 cal bullets in the past, may still have some.

There have been several threads where guys listed the bullets they use for reloading.
Try a search on this forum.

[PRD1]

Thank you for the response! Perhaps G.T. will step-up, also; otherwise, I'll try to get in touch with him.
The only bullet I've been able to find of the proper diameter and (nearly) weight is the Hornady .309" 90 gr. HP, which I will try, but I'd still like to locate some proper FMJ types. FWIW, the Lapuas, while nominally .309" diameter, actually measure just under .308", and have to be heavily crimped to prevent telescoping into the case.

PRD1 - mhb - MIke

[DonVoigt]

You could always drive up and knock on G.T.'s door. He is up in Chandler.

[G.T.]

Thanks Don, and hi to you Mike... you're probably not too far away?... I still have a few hundred .93 gr. Swiss ball ammo, and I'm sure we can find a nice bore .30 original Luger barrel in my parts drawer, or someone else's on this forum? They are not rare, nor expensive... Drop me a note at gctomeks@msn.com Don has it pretty much figured out, as he is a serious problem solver on my R&D team ! ... best to you, til...lat'r...GT

[PRD1]

Thanks for your responses!
Don: I might get up to GT's door, sometime, but he lives about 300 miles away (I'm down in the SE corner of the state, in Sierra Vista, just up the road a piece from Tombstone - 'The Town too Touristy to Die").
GT: I will e-mail you about the project. I was hoping someone could answer my question about the interchangeability of the available new-production .30 barrels from SARCO. My concerns with used barrels are bore condition and the headspace issue - a new barrel, presumably short-chambered, would be reamed to correct headspace in installation, while a used barrel might be something of a crapshoot in that regard, especially in such a post-WW1 "Made in Germany" former Artillery. My components search is for bullets only: I have more than 600 rounds of new W-W .30 Luger ammo, about 100 fired cases and 500 new Starline cases, but less than 500 Lapua bullets. The W-W ammo is just too ghastly expensive to shoot on a regular basis, and though good ammo is available from PPU and Fiocchi at more reasonable prices, I'd prefer to load it myself.

Thanks again;

PRD-1 - mhb - MIke

[G.T.]

Hi Mike, actually, the .30 1920 commercial barrels are usually spot on, on head space... they also index correctly and some times we can score a mint bore as well... The aftermarket barrels usually do none of the above and need a little "extra lov'en" on the mill and lathe, not to mention polishing and throating by hand...Originals are the best by quite a bit! If we can find a nice bore, Mr. Thor or Mr. Danner can make it look new on the outside.... ... best to sll, til...lat'r....GT

[Lugerdoc]

Mike, I have MANY original 20 commerical used, rust blued, 95 to 98mm long barrels in stock, from $25 for serialized ones with VG bore to like new inside and out @$75 or same unserialized @$100 + $10 priority S&H in USA. TH

[G.T.]

Hi Mike, the barrels listed by Mr. Tinker and Luger doc, are an excellent example of what is available on this forum at excellent prices!!!! I regularly work with both these gentlemen and hold them in the highest regard... It would just be a matter of what you prefer... The $75.00 as new in and out would be a great choice from Luger doc.... as would the 4" unmarked if you have a premo shooter condition unit to start with, best to all, til...lat'r....GT

[PRD1]

Thanks for the additional info!
I have initiated the process with GT to replace my barrel, leaving the choice of barrels to him, so long as we achieve my goals of excellent bore condition and correct headspace. External finish is secondary, since the pistol shows considerable wear to the finish, while remaining in excellent mechanical shape.
All of the prices quoted for available barrels are perfectly acceptable, but there is no need for special selection for non-functional issues.
The pistol is a pretty ordinary example of the post-WW1 home shop conversions, originally an Artillery, apearing to have retained all the original parts, except the barrel, and having all the Imperial markings and date scrubbed and re-proved with German commercial markings.
The 'smith' who did the conversion must have been a believer in economy, because he left the original rearmost toggle section from the Artillery in-place; which, having no rear sight, he simply notched on the hump (probably figured the American buyer wouldn't know the difference, and apparently correctly): it shot about a foot low at 10 meters. I replaced the rear toggle section with one having the rear sight, and it now shoots (quite accurately, in spite of the very tired bore) to point of aim.
This is my only .30 Luger (I have others in 9mm which I also shoot), and certainly nothing special, but it came from the estate of my best and oldest friend, and I want to make it as good as it can be functionally, other factors aside...

PRD1 - mhb - MIke

[rhuff]

Mike,

I am one of many handloaders of 30 Luger ammo on this forum. I own handguns besides Lugers in 30 Luger caliber, as I enjoy shooting this caliber. I know of no known source of 93gr .309in. FMJ bullets sold in the USA. I have some of GT's Swiss 93gr .309in FMJ and they work wonderfully in my brass.

I have tried the Hornady 85gr .309in. JHP bullts with just o.k. results in MY handguns.....nothing sterling in reliability or accuracy. Others here report good results with them. All Lugers are "individuals".

For my shooter alphabet Lugers, I have been pleased with lead 93gr
.309-.310in. RN bullets from Western Bullet Company in Mt. They will sell you 100 to try out if you wish to go in this direction. I shoot these in less than stellar bores with no problems. Just a thought.

[John Sabato]

Have you .30 calibre Luger aficionado's ever considered getting the appropriate tools and swaging your own bullets to your spec's?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...0UiZHZkG-ULTdg

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...VAI6CwMJaGKaS1

https://www.ammoland.com/2013/07/a-l...#axzz53FHyV7tm



I did this back in the '70s and it was a lot of fun... but I don't handload anymore... and sold all the equipment years ago.

[PRD1]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience. I did have cast bullets in mind as one of the justifications for re-barreling.
And, I actually do swage bullets - lead picket bullets for my .38 C. Foehl Philadelphia muzzleloading schuetzen rifle. But no jacketed bullets (at least, not so far).
I also cast bullets, of types and calibers I cannot buy.
But, time being a precious commodity (moreso to the retired and basically lazy), I do not make any type of bullet I can buy ready-made.
And, in this case, I've already called 'dibs' on all of GT's remaining supply of Swiss bullets, which, with the Lapuas I already have, should suffice for all my future shooting of the .30 Luger...

PRD1 - mhb - MIke

[Edward Tinker]

Originally Posted by PRD1

...
And, in this case, I've already called 'dibs' on all of GT's remaining supply of Swiss bullets, which, with the Lapuas I already have, should suffice for all my future shooting of the .30 Luger...

PRD1 - mhb - MIke

hmmm, I think I'll ask GT for half of them - I've known him a lot longer! Even tho I have no use for them right now

just kidding - I seem to have bought 5 or 800 rounds and shoot them - well not often...

[PRD1]

Eek!
You had me worried for a moment, there.

PRD1 - mhb - MIke

[Rick W.]

I have used a lot of the Sierra and Hornady 30 cal pistol bullets over the years. Expensive, but a nice jacketed bullet. I shoot them in my 30 Lugers and 7.65x19's. Speer plinkers and carbine bullets are heavier and longer, so one has to be ok with that. I might note that my shooting 30's have 308 barrels made by myself.

I read that you are a barrel maker, so with that in mind, there are plenty of 30-06 takeoff barrels for a song. Just takes some time at the lathe. I find that the front ramp is the hard thing for me, I have no mill or rotary table; so I have to do with two piece barrels, barrel proper and ramp soft silver soldered on. Of course, with a scoped Luger, irons are a moot point.

I bought two barrels years ago oem, replicas, one chamber was ringed, the other was ok. Neither one timed to my particular receiver.

I have no real information on "real" Luger barrels timing or headspacing wise. I rely on the SAAMI specs for chamber numbers and gage information. 30 Luger finish reamers are about 80 bucks or so, gages 25 or so if you want one.

As I recall most real 30 Luger barrels are larger than the 308 number, so perhaps why casting your own bullets is a ticket, make them like you want or rely on the movement to the barrel sides during time down the barrel. Of course, your local range has to allow lead bullets, mine does not.

If one ventures into the 312 bullets, then they can be swaged down to 308-309 or whatever in a single pass thru a die. I read about such on a thread here some years ago.

Don't know how things will always go here, some folks enjoy making their own stuff, others prefer to buy it already to go; both seem to work ok I reckon.

If one has problems with pushing of the bullet down the case, might take a looksee at the expander button and make it right for the components of the day. Most bullets do not have a roll crimp groove, so we just give them a little extra usually. I seem to recall that Lee offered a taper crimp 30 Luger die at one time fwiw.

[PRD1]

Thanks for the thoughts.
Actually, I did think about making a new barrel, or simply using a .30" or 7.65mm caliber rifle barrel as a blank (and I have numerous take-off barrels of commercial and MILSURP types, as well as NOS surplus barrels and cutoff pieces of all sorts). But, then I thought: Naah. Still, when I get the replacement barrel, I may get motivated to try re-lining the old one.
I actually have re-barreled a couple of Lugers - 9mms - with the Numrich barrels (for other folks), and had no problems with them.
I have many 'projects' lying around the shop which, if I'm honest, aren't likely to get done soon, if ever (these are all my own stuff, not anyone else's).
As to the bullet and seating issue: I can make or alter an expander, and may yet do so, depending on what bullets are available and their actual diameter. The problem with the Lapuas (which do have a crimping groove) is that, while nominally of .309" (correct for the .30 Luger) diameter, they actually measure a tad under .308". Eventually, I hope to find a ready supply of a more suitable bullet.
I guess what it boils down to is motivation, of which I have a noticeably reduced supply, versus available options for getting the desired result with less effort.

PRD1 - mhb - MIke

[DonVoigt]

PRD1,
You will have "solved" your bullet problem when you get the Swiss rounds from GT.
They are surplus, new bullets that the Swiss military used for years for their 7,65mm lugers- you won't find better.

"Making" a .30 barrel would be a waste of time, JMHO; there are scores of .30 take offs, like new, just waiting for an owner. You can probably get one free. Most folks take out the .30 and put a 9mm in due to ammo costs.

It is tough to sell a .30 take off!

[Rick W.]

PRD1,

My barrels were made from 700 takeoffs, as you say, always around and fair barrel quality for the most part, the 10 twist is about right for a 30 Luger too.

I reckon I got into barrel fabrication because of costs, hard times come and go. You can fabricate any taper, length, or speciality of a barrel when on your own; not always available ots; and there is some satisfaction in all of that as I am sure you well know. I guess I like barrels that are a bit different in my later years, standards have their place, but there is always the call over the horizon for me.

I have tried the swaging of factory bullets down for the 30 Luger from the 312's, seems to work. Recently tried it with a Jet and Squirrel in 22 cal, about the same result.

We now have Starline for brass for some oddities that we all shoot some, as the old names seem to be on seasonal or multi-year runs. The European brass/bullets are fine quality as well.

I have perused the bullet making dies a time or two, but never got there. For the most part, current offerings are steel dies which do not wear as well as carbide, but the carbide bullet making dies are getting pricey for most casual guys.

I hear you on motivation. Can be hard to find at times.

I think if I was to purchase a new ots barrel, G.T. is who I would speak with.

[PRD1]

Thanks for the additional comments.
I have put the project into G.T.'s hands, and am sure he will do a good job.
I have been glad in recent years to be able to find good brass for some of the older and less popular rounds, such as the .30 Luger, 8mm Nambu (good bullets, too), .25-20 single shot (also good for the R2 Lovell), etc. I'm still peeved over the shortage of good .30-40 Krag brass from W-W and/or Remington, but have enough to get by. I've been prodding Starline to add the Krag to its growing list of bottleneck rifle cartridges. I'm also surprised that neither PPU nor Fiocchi have made their .30 Luger bullets available thusfar...

PRD1 - mhb - MIke