Is This Legal? - Page 2

cirelaw · 06-15-2021, 10:31 AM

Not!

cirelaw · 06-15-2021, 10:42 AM

ATF Correct!

cirelaw · 06-15-2021, 12:26 PM

Can a stock be original and legal although not matched to the gun? #3231t

schutzen-jager · 06-15-2021, 12:55 PM

nothing that i know of in ATF regulations mentions serial numbers , only originality of type -

cirelaw · 06-15-2021, 01:38 PM

I wonder if ATF takes it too liberal! Here one that is not original so not legal to attach and use// No Disclaimer~ https://www.ebay.com/itm/38419017212...wAAOSwDhhgt9ae This is like a Law School Question!!!

schutzen-jager · 06-15-2021, 03:16 PM

IIRC responsibility will fall on final owner + if he or she has a short barrel luger with an unground stock lug - also i have been told by judges + prosecutors that it is far easier to convict an honest citizen committing a crime by mistake then a criminal deliberately breaking to law on purpose - ignorance of law is not a valid excuse in court -

cirelaw · 06-15-2021, 04:08 PM

Well Put!! Laws are not laws unless enforced!

m1903a3 · 06-16-2021, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

I wonder if ATF takes it too liberal! Here one that is not original so not legal to attach and use// No Disclaimer~ https://www.ebay.com/itm/38419017212...wAAOSwDhhgt9ae This is like a Law School Question!!!

If I recall correctly, CMR obtained a letter from the ATF that allows their replica stocks to be used IAW the same rules as an original. e.g. A Navy replica stock only on a P.04.

cirelaw · 06-16-2021, 05:43 PM

I agree!! I Think The problem is use not ownership! Which makes no sense! But the Use and attachment:// CMR has been selling the for years!! Doesn't sell the iron attachment seen below which is needed to connect luger and stock~ https://www.cmrfirearms.com/pistols-...b02-p-858.html

cirelaw · 06-16-2021, 08:23 PM

Lugermans' looks correct https://lugerman.com/product/luger-carbine-1902-stock/

schutzen-jager · 06-17-2021, 08:26 AM

Click image for larger version

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Bill_in_VA · 06-17-2021, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schutzen-jager

Attachment 83395

This is grossly out of date, and thus incorrect. See Section III of the current C&R list.

https://www.atf.gov/file/128116/download

Heinz · 06-17-2021, 09:58 AM

Schutzen, thanks for posting. That older reference has been superseded by the current listings I posted above. However, ATF is a Federal bureaucracy loved by the elite left and the C&R list is a regulatory exemption from the "Short rifle" proscription of the National Firearms Act. They can change their definitions almost at their whim.

m1903a3 · 06-17-2021, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schutzen-jager

Attachment 83395

Source and date??

schutzen-jager · 06-17-2021, 01:33 PM

file on my computer - IIRC ATF pamphlet from 1986 ? - like i stated an older reference -

cirelaw · 06-17-2021, 01:39 PM

Joe Salter insists that an original artillery stock can be used on a carbine luger???The Stock has to be the same size and material!

schutzen-jager · 06-17-2021, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

Joe Salter insists that an original artillery stock can be used on a carbine luger???The Stock has to be the same size and material!

jmho

only if accompanied with a valid ATF approval letter -

cirelaw · 06-17-2021, 05:41 PM

Thats what I thought!!!!!!!TKS Its neither the attachable stock is the same size and no letter from ATF allowing an artillery stock replace a carbine stock~ NOT!!

JTD · 06-18-2021, 08:09 AM

Beat the old horse to death AGAIN.....

cirelaw · 06-18-2021, 11:01 AM

Over! Refuses to consider the truth~ Thank You All For Your Patience~ Eric

06-15-2021, 10:31 AM	#21
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Not! Attached Thumbnails

06-15-2021, 10:42 AM	#22
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	ATF Correct! Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

06-15-2021, 12:26 PM	#23
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Can a stock be original and legal although not matched to the gun? #3231t Attached Thumbnails

06-15-2021, 03:16 PM	#26
schutzen-jager User Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: peoples republic of New Jersey Posts: 187 Thanks: 208 Thanked 187 Times in 86 Posts	IIRC responsibility will fall on final owner + if he or she has a short barrel luger with an unground stock lug - also i have been told by judges + prosecutors that it is far easier to convict an honest citizen committing a crime by mistake then a criminal deliberately breaking to law on purpose - ignorance of law is not a valid excuse in court - Last edited by schutzen-jager; 06-16-2021 at 07:21 AM. Reason: spelling

06-16-2021, 05:43 PM	#29
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I agree!! I Think The problem is use not ownership! Which makes no sense! But the Use and attachment:// CMR has been selling the for years!! Doesn't sell the iron attachment seen below which is needed to connect luger and stock~ https://www.cmrfirearms.com/pistols-...b02-p-858.html Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

06-15-2021, 12:55 PM	#24
schutzen-jager User Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: peoples republic of New Jersey Posts: 187 Thanks: 208 Thanked 187 Times in 86 Posts	nothing that i know of in ATF regulations mentions serial numbers , only originality of type -

06-15-2021, 01:38 PM	#25
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I wonder if ATF takes it too liberal! Here one that is not original so not legal to attach and use// No Disclaimer~ https://www.ebay.com/itm/38419017212...wAAOSwDhhgt9ae This is like a Law School Question!!!

06-15-2021, 04:08 PM	#27
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Well Put!! Laws are not laws unless enforced!

06-16-2021, 08:23 PM	#30
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Lugermans' looks correct https://lugerman.com/product/luger-carbine-1902-stock/ Attached Thumbnails

06-17-2021, 08:26 AM	#31
schutzen-jager User Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: peoples republic of New Jersey Posts: 187 Thanks: 208 Thanked 187 Times in 86 Posts	FWIW older reference

06-17-2021, 09:58 AM	#33
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	Schutzen, thanks for posting. That older reference has been superseded by the current listings I posted above. However, ATF is a Federal bureaucracy loved by the elite left and the C&R list is a regulatory exemption from the "Short rifle" proscription of the National Firearms Act. They can change their definitions almost at their whim.

06-17-2021, 01:33 PM	#35
schutzen-jager User Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: peoples republic of New Jersey Posts: 187 Thanks: 208 Thanked 187 Times in 86 Posts	file on my computer - IIRC ATF pamphlet from 1986 ? - like i stated an older reference - Last edited by schutzen-jager; 06-17-2021 at 01:34 PM. Reason: spelling

06-17-2021, 01:39 PM	#36
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Joe Salter insists that an original artillery stock can be used on a carbine luger???The Stock has to be the same size and material!

06-17-2021, 05:41 PM	#38
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Thats what I thought!!!!!!!TKS Its neither the attachable stock is the same size and no letter from ATF allowing an artillery stock replace a carbine stock~ NOT!! Attached Thumbnails

06-18-2021, 08:09 AM	#39
JTD User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 424 Thanks: 214 Thanked 407 Times in 148 Posts	Beat the old horse to death AGAIN.....

06-18-2021, 11:01 AM	#40
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Over! Refuses to consider the truth~ Thank You All For Your Patience~ Eric