7.65 1918 question

Dave Sanders · 04-24-2009, 10:13 PM

I had a guy call me and offer me a luger for sale, but I have what may be a dumb question as this caught me off guard a bit and need a bit of clarification. He said it is a 1918 dated luger but in 7.65 (30 luger) cal. There isn't another date stamp on it but he said the gun is matching except some other numbers were added to the toggle part, but the barrel matches to the gun, too. I know it sounds confusing as it did to me, but is sounded a bit like an after war job to me. Now, here is my question: there weren't any 30 luger made guns that would be dated 1918 would there? Weren't all WWI military guns 9mm? Didn't the 30 luger caliber come in after the war or were in commercial sales? The guy said he has a fairly new book that says 1918's could be both. I have not heard that, but didn't want to argue with him. I am going to try to look at it tomorrow, but wanted some clarification to myself before I go.Thanks for any help you may give.
Dave

policeluger · 04-24-2009, 10:16 PM

Run....away.....no wait it may be a good price shooter, but there were no 1918 .30 cal's and be real careful of re-stamped/boosted guns......

policeluger · 04-24-2009, 10:18 PM

If you want, on second thought here, I should be home most of tomorrow as I have several customers coming over, call me if you want after you get a look at the gun, perhaps I can help on the phone.....Howard 760-375-5703........good luck

Dave Sanders · 04-25-2009, 12:28 AM

I appreciate that offer. I'll see what it looks like and price. I am glad to hear there were no 30 cal 1918 lugers as I was pretty sure of that but of course just when you think you have it figured out.... Thanks again.
Dave

Lugerdoc · 04-25-2009, 09:24 AM

Dave, You above assumptions are correct. In years past, I have also run into a couple of matching, dated WW1 militaries in 7.65mm. I believe the ones that I saw had been relined. Perhaps the original bore was shot out, or they were done to comply with laws forbidding civilian possessions of 9mm pistols such as in Italy or Mexico. TH

Dave Sanders · 04-25-2009, 07:55 PM

I took a look at the luger. The barrel of course was add on many years ago due to its age look, it was not numbered to the gun, all other parts matched the gun except the side plate which was un numbered. It also had the GERMANY stamp on the bar near the side plate. He still swore up and down that he read it was common to have a 30 caliber luger and dated 1918. I tried to tell him that if it was a 1918 dated luger, it had to be 9mm, but gave up trying to convince him of that. And to top it all off, he wanted $1500 for it. Yikes, I can get a nice unmessed with one for that and probably with the holster.
Dave

policeluger · 04-25-2009, 08:54 PM

Glad you turned it down......way to much money and I would never consider the 1918 in 30 cal to be anything less then a rebarrel shooter....till next time....

sabbathmusic · 10-19-2010, 07:37 AM

There a VERY few commercial 7.65's made in 1918! So it can be REAL! It says this right in Fred Datig's book. This is a fact and it is very rare. They did make them, what do you people think, because of WW1, DWM stopped making commercial Lugers, they are out there. And the .30 Luger cartridge is the original chambering for the Luger, MADE before the 9mm in 1900, the 9mm was made in 1902, and they made 7.65's for the Swiss Military. When the Swiss adopted the Luger Before the Germans, they adopted the 7.65 version, not the 9mm! So the 7.65mm /30 Luger cartridge is older than the 9mm. It is the REAL Luger cartridge.

Edward Tinker · 10-19-2010, 10:09 AM

If it was a commericial, then it would NOT be dated by the military, and accepted into the military.

Further, the "germany" marking was required by the USA as an export marking, and Germany was at war with the USA in 1918. Yes you could argue that it was already in 7.65mm and then was sent to the USA after WW1 in that caliber.

That said, what year was Datig written?

The information in your book is about 50 years old.

I have not seen any newer information that states that a 'dated' military accepted luger in WW1 was ever in 7.65mm.

Ed

04-24-2009, 10:13 PM	#1
Dave Sanders User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Hamer, Idaho Posts: 273 Thanks: 19 Thanked 39 Times in 20 Posts	7.65 1918 question I had a guy call me and offer me a luger for sale, but I have what may be a dumb question as this caught me off guard a bit and need a bit of clarification. He said it is a 1918 dated luger but in 7.65 (30 luger) cal. There isn't another date stamp on it but he said the gun is matching except some other numbers were added to the toggle part, but the barrel matches to the gun, too. I know it sounds confusing as it did to me, but is sounded a bit like an after war job to me. Now, here is my question: there weren't any 30 luger made guns that would be dated 1918 would there? Weren't all WWI military guns 9mm? Didn't the 30 luger caliber come in after the war or were in commercial sales? The guy said he has a fairly new book that says 1918's could be both. I have not heard that, but didn't want to argue with him. I am going to try to look at it tomorrow, but wanted some clarification to myself before I go.Thanks for any help you may give. Dave

04-25-2009, 09:24 AM	#5
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Dave, You above assumptions are correct. In years past, I have also run into a couple of matching, dated WW1 militaries in 7.65mm. I believe the ones that I saw had been relined. Perhaps the original bore was shot out, or they were done to comply with laws forbidding civilian possessions of 9mm pistols such as in Italy or Mexico. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-19-2010, 10:09 AM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,911 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	If it was a commericial, then it would NOT be dated by the military, and accepted into the military. Further, the "germany" marking was required by the USA as an export marking, and Germany was at war with the USA in 1918. Yes you could argue that it was already in 7.65mm and then was sent to the USA after WW1 in that caliber. That said, what year was Datig written? The information in your book is about 50 years old. I have not seen any newer information that states that a 'dated' military accepted luger in WW1 was ever in 7.65mm. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-24-2009, 10:16 PM	#2
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Run....away.....no wait it may be a good price shooter, but there were no 1918 .30 cal's and be real careful of re-stamped/boosted guns......

04-24-2009, 10:18 PM	#3
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	If you want, on second thought here, I should be home most of tomorrow as I have several customers coming over, call me if you want after you get a look at the gun, perhaps I can help on the phone.....Howard 760-375-5703........good luck

04-25-2009, 12:28 AM	#4
Dave Sanders User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Hamer, Idaho Posts: 273 Thanks: 19 Thanked 39 Times in 20 Posts	I appreciate that offer. I'll see what it looks like and price. I am glad to hear there were no 30 cal 1918 lugers as I was pretty sure of that but of course just when you think you have it figured out.... Thanks again. Dave

04-25-2009, 07:55 PM	#6
Dave Sanders User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Hamer, Idaho Posts: 273 Thanks: 19 Thanked 39 Times in 20 Posts	I took a look at the luger. The barrel of course was add on many years ago due to its age look, it was not numbered to the gun, all other parts matched the gun except the side plate which was un numbered. It also had the GERMANY stamp on the bar near the side plate. He still swore up and down that he read it was common to have a 30 caliber luger and dated 1918. I tried to tell him that if it was a 1918 dated luger, it had to be 9mm, but gave up trying to convince him of that. And to top it all off, he wanted $1500 for it. Yikes, I can get a nice unmessed with one for that and probably with the holster. Dave

04-25-2009, 08:54 PM	#7
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Glad you turned it down......way to much money and I would never consider the 1918 in 30 cal to be anything less then a rebarrel shooter....till next time....

10-19-2010, 07:37 AM	#8
sabbathmusic Banned Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	There a VERY few commercial 7.65's made in 1918! So it can be REAL! It says this right in Fred Datig's book. This is a fact and it is very rare. They did make them, what do you people think, because of WW1, DWM stopped making commercial Lugers, they are out there. And the .30 Luger cartridge is the original chambering for the Luger, MADE before the 9mm in 1900, the 9mm was made in 1902, and they made 7.65's for the Swiss Military. When the Swiss adopted the Luger Before the Germans, they adopted the 7.65 version, not the 9mm! So the 7.65mm /30 Luger cartridge is older than the 9mm. It is the REAL Luger cartridge.