1911A1 Clone

Edward Tinker · 09-18-2003, 02:42 AM

This is a little project I have been working on, almost finished.

I had the WW2 Remington Rand slide from my grandfather and some assorted parts, bought a few off of e-bay, then bought the rest at Reno while "shopping" with Herb and then with Dwight.

I came across a Mitchell frame, it is stainless, I wanted a Essex or real military one, but they are almost impossible to find, but at Reno I just happened to come across this Mitchell, which is the same gentlemen that make the Lugers, so I thought that was cool.

Haven't shot it, just got it together tonight, had to order some pins and I see that I didn't remember a plunger tube <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
While the grips I made for my father-in-laws 1911 and thought they'd look nice on this bugger.

Ed

Ron Wood · 09-18-2003, 03:10 AM

Now that is a neat firearm in the making! I feel a real sense of envy because various trades to support my Luger addiction has rendered me without a 1911 or variant to my name. That will be remedied as soon as I can. Nice job Ed.

policeluger · 09-18-2003, 09:09 AM

Ron, I ahve several NIB Colt and S'field .45's, as trade material. And the trade I am always looking for is Weimar Police. Ed, I have tool bins full of 1911 parts, wish I know you were looking for parts. I was given a Colt complete upper, Gold Cup, matched it to an Essex lower and it has been a great shooter.

Frank · 09-18-2003, 09:43 AM

Ron, no 1911??? I am really surprised. As the credit card advertisement says, I wouldn't leave home without it!!! And mine was made after 1918!!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Ed, looks like a fun project. Let us know how it shoots!!

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

John Sabato · 09-18-2003, 10:29 AM

Ed,

Nice looking 1911A1... the grips look as if they were made out of a piece of the hardwood flooring the gun was photographed on...

I used to have a plunger tube installation tool that I made myself but I think I traded it off...

The are real easy to make out of an inexpensive pair of pliers or even vice grips

On one jaw of the tool use a round file of appropriate diameter to cut a half-round trench in the jaw that is a comfortable fit over plunger tube... on the opposite side drill a hole that centers on the trench you cut into the other jaw... Tap the hole and then insert an appropriately hard screw and tighten... the length protruding on the inside of the jaw should be about .25 or .275 inches... so cut the screw off with a hacksaw and then remove the screw and rotate in a drill press or lathe so you can sharpen the end of the screw with a good file to about a 60 degree point...

put the screw back in the tool and you are ready to install plunger tubes all day if you want to.

just remember to insert a close fitting pin punch or drill rod inside the tube so it isn't crushed by the installation pressure...make sure the inserted mandril pin is long enough to easily get it out when you are done installing the tube and I would lubricate it generously to aid in getting it out.

I never had one come off using a tool made like this...

Good Luck.

Edward Tinker · 09-18-2003, 01:41 PM

Thanks, I think the last 45 I made was way back in the early 80's, and the tube was on then?

Will copy these instructions, appreciate it!

And Policeluger, I wish I'd thought to ask before we met in Reno also!

Ed

Roadkill · 09-18-2003, 06:54 PM

Cutting a piece out of the hardwood floor to make a set of grips.....potential there John. I might just be able to get away with it. Nice gun Ed.

rk

Edward Tinker · 09-18-2003, 06:56 PM

Actually it's Zebrawood, has a nice grain to it, but a bit brittle if it is too thin or you hit the grain wrong in sanding.

Ed

John D. · 09-18-2003, 08:07 PM

Ed,

First - Mitchell frames are pretty good. But, you already know the discrepancies between them and a Colt frame (undercut front grip strap, dust shield, offset release, frame tails, etc.). As well, the frame is cut for a "beavertail" drop in....

Soooo - if you need parts - let me know. John S's post is right on as for a homemade tool. You can also "stake" a tube using extended drifts (through the grip and from the top for the lower halfÃ¢??s).

Let me know if you need parts - they are yours. After 'smithing O-Frames for 30 years - I have a collection of "stuff" . So - just e-mail me and they are yours. As well - I have a lot of tools you might be able to use as well..???

John D. · 09-18-2003, 08:31 PM

BTW: Without the plunger tube in place - you can polish that SS frame sides to a high gloss with 320 followed by 600 followed by 1200 grit wet/dry.....

Just as an FYI

Edward Tinker · 09-18-2003, 08:38 PM

yup, need a plunger tube, ahve the rest, the gun just keeps coming apart without it...

I am definately not an expert, just have put a couple together, dry feeding, it doesn't liek the barrel I have on it, doesn't even get far enough to stove-pipe...

Ed

John D. · 09-18-2003, 09:07 PM

Plunger tube. Let me take a look.... I probably have one or five...

Barrel? What do you have in there now? What mags, what extractor, where does it "hang"? You have a FTRB or a pick up problem out'ta the mag? Also - are you using snap caps to try these?

Let us know, OK????

JD

Edward Tinker · 09-18-2003, 10:05 PM

Barrel is an old one I had laying around, ok bore, nothing great. Have a coupleof GI mags, couple of ones I used to carry for duty, meaning they are good civilian ones.

Have two extracors, they look new.

Ed

John D. · 09-18-2003, 10:24 PM

If you are having a FTE, the the extractors need to be tuned, as well if the cartridge won't feed out of the mag lips and hanging on the breechface, then that could be either a mag lip problem or an aggressive extractor (or a couple of other things.).

Ummm - can you post details? As well - get the plunger tube installed (you have the spring set/keeper,plungers for it - right?), so it will feed or not without interference (ie "falling apart"

)

On that note - I'll look for a tube assy for you tonite or tomorrow AM, OK?

Best to you!

Edward Tinker · 09-18-2003, 11:07 PM

Not FTE, but FTF.

I tried actually using it, figured the gun would stay together, the slide stop would try to pop out

The rounds wouldn't even feed into the barrel, except one, then the slide stop was being stupid, so I quit trying to blow my hand apart.

I doubt it is a mag problem, as I tried three and they were either newer ones or a nice civilian one.

I ordered a pin set from Brownells, it had plunger springs and such in it.

So, I could try another extractor, see how that works, after I get the tube assembly on it. I seem to remember popping one on at one time, using pliers??

Ed

John D. · 09-19-2003, 08:26 AM

Hi Ed..!

Actually - I wrote a lengthy post at one time in the 1911 Forum about tuning "extractors" in the Dan Wesson Forum:

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/foru...?s=&forumid=52

I post there are "jd-08" (big surprise, huh?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ). Anyway - I'll try to do a search there later today for you. Also - to "tune" the extractor, you only need to need to remove the FPS and insert the extractor's base into the slide ("backwards"), then gently bend it to achieve the correct tension. No pliers required

Edward Tinker · 09-19-2003, 12:16 PM

I used to have a Dan Wesson revolver, but it went the way of some other gun? Kind of cool the way you could swap barrels so easily.

I think I only had the 4 inch barrel.

Didn't know they went and made a 45 ACP clone?

Will go and read this in a minute, probably save it, as I saved the Rust html, but then you had saved it also.

Ed

John D. · 09-19-2003, 01:29 PM

Hi Ed..!

No problem.... Here are some threads for you. The first thread, scroll on down - and you'll see some pics on dressing the extractor claw. The rest of the threads are interesting reading (when you have a few hours to spare

)

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/show...threadid=47806

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/show...threadid=46492

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/show...threadid=54171

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/show...threadid=44688

John D. · 09-19-2003, 01:47 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Edward Tinker:
.... as I saved the Rust html, but then you had saved it also.....<hr /></blockquote>I didn't save it

The SEARCH engines typically keep a cached version - so all I did was performed a SEARCH, opened THEIR cached version - and like magic - there it is

09-18-2003, 02:42 AM	#1
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	1911A1 Clone This is a little project I have been working on, almost finished. I had the WW2 Remington Rand slide from my grandfather and some assorted parts, bought a few off of e-bay, then bought the rest at Reno while "shopping" with Herb and then with Dwight. I came across a Mitchell frame, it is stainless, I wanted a Essex or real military one, but they are almost impossible to find, but at Reno I just happened to come across this Mitchell, which is the same gentlemen that make the Lugers, so I thought that was cool. Haven't shot it, just got it together tonight, had to order some pins and I see that I didn't remember a plunger tube <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> While the grips I made for my father-in-laws 1911 and thought they'd look nice on this bugger. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-18-2003, 03:10 AM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Now that is a neat firearm in the making! I feel a real sense of envy because various trades to support my Luger addiction has rendered me without a 1911 or variant to my name. That will be remedied as soon as I can. Nice job Ed. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-18-2003, 10:29 AM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Ed, Nice looking 1911A1... the grips look as if they were made out of a piece of the hardwood flooring the gun was photographed on... I used to have a plunger tube installation tool that I made myself but I think I traded it off... The are real easy to make out of an inexpensive pair of pliers or even vice grips On one jaw of the tool use a round file of appropriate diameter to cut a half-round trench in the jaw that is a comfortable fit over plunger tube... on the opposite side drill a hole that centers on the trench you cut into the other jaw... Tap the hole and then insert an appropriately hard screw and tighten... the length protruding on the inside of the jaw should be about .25 or .275 inches... so cut the screw off with a hacksaw and then remove the screw and rotate in a drill press or lathe so you can sharpen the end of the screw with a good file to about a 60 degree point... put the screw back in the tool and you are ready to install plunger tubes all day if you want to. just remember to insert a close fitting pin punch or drill rod inside the tube so it isn't crushed by the installation pressure...make sure the inserted mandril pin is long enough to easily get it out when you are done installing the tube and I would lubricate it generously to aid in getting it out. I never had one come off using a tool made like this... Good Luck. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-18-2003, 01:41 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Thanks, I think the last 45 I made was way back in the early 80's, and the tube was on then? Will copy these instructions, appreciate it! And Policeluger, I wish I'd thought to ask before we met in Reno also! Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-18-2003, 06:56 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Actually it's Zebrawood, has a nice grain to it, but a bit brittle if it is too thin or you hit the grain wrong in sanding. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-18-2003, 09:09 AM	#3
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Ron, I ahve several NIB Colt and S'field .45's, as trade material. And the trade I am always looking for is Weimar Police. Ed, I have tool bins full of 1911 parts, wish I know you were looking for parts. I was given a Colt complete upper, Gold Cup, matched it to an Essex lower and it has been a great shooter.

09-18-2003, 09:43 AM	#4
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Ron, no 1911??? I am really surprised. As the credit card advertisement says, I wouldn't leave home without it!!! And mine was made after 1918!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Ed, looks like a fun project. Let us know how it shoots!! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

09-18-2003, 06:54 PM	#7
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Cutting a piece out of the hardwood floor to make a set of grips.....potential there John. I might just be able to get away with it. Nice gun Ed. rk

09-18-2003, 08:07 PM	#9
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 471 Thanked 513 Times in 127 Posts	Ed, First - Mitchell frames are pretty good. But, you already know the discrepancies between them and a Colt frame (undercut front grip strap, dust shield, offset release, frame tails, etc.). As well, the frame is cut for a "beavertail" drop in.... Soooo - if you need parts - let me know. John S's post is right on as for a homemade tool. You can also "stake" a tube using extended drifts (through the grip and from the top for the lower halfÃ¢??s). Let me know if you need parts - they are yours. After 'smithing O-Frames for 30 years - I have a collection of "stuff" . So - just e-mail me and they are yours. As well - I have a lot of tools you might be able to use as well..???

09-18-2003, 08:31 PM	#10
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 471 Thanked 513 Times in 127 Posts	BTW: Without the plunger tube in place - you can polish that SS frame sides to a high gloss with 320 followed by 600 followed by 1200 grit wet/dry..... Just as an FYI

09-18-2003, 08:38 PM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	yup, need a plunger tube, ahve the rest, the gun just keeps coming apart without it... I am definately not an expert, just have put a couple together, dry feeding, it doesn't liek the barrel I have on it, doesn't even get far enough to stove-pipe... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-18-2003, 09:07 PM	#12
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 471 Thanked 513 Times in 127 Posts	Plunger tube. Let me take a look.... I probably have one or five... Barrel? What do you have in there now? What mags, what extractor, where does it "hang"? You have a FTRB or a pick up problem out'ta the mag? Also - are you using snap caps to try these? Let us know, OK???? JD

09-18-2003, 10:05 PM	#13
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Barrel is an old one I had laying around, ok bore, nothing great. Have a coupleof GI mags, couple of ones I used to carry for duty, meaning they are good civilian ones. Have two extracors, they look new. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-18-2003, 10:24 PM	#14
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 471 Thanked 513 Times in 127 Posts	If you are having a FTE, the the extractors need to be tuned, as well if the cartridge won't feed out of the mag lips and hanging on the breechface, then that could be either a mag lip problem or an aggressive extractor (or a couple of other things.). Ummm - can you post details? As well - get the plunger tube installed (you have the spring set/keeper,plungers for it - right?), so it will feed or not without interference (ie "falling apart" ) On that note - I'll look for a tube assy for you tonite or tomorrow AM, OK? Best to you!

09-18-2003, 11:07 PM	#15
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Not FTE, but FTF. I tried actually using it, figured the gun would stay together, the slide stop would try to pop out The rounds wouldn't even feed into the barrel, except one, then the slide stop was being stupid, so I quit trying to blow my hand apart. I doubt it is a mag problem, as I tried three and they were either newer ones or a nice civilian one. I ordered a pin set from Brownells, it had plunger springs and such in it. So, I could try another extractor, see how that works, after I get the tube assembly on it. I seem to remember popping one on at one time, using pliers?? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-19-2003, 08:26 AM	#16
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 471 Thanked 513 Times in 127 Posts	Hi Ed..! Actually - I wrote a lengthy post at one time in the 1911 Forum about tuning "extractors" in the Dan Wesson Forum: http://www.1911forum.com/forums/foru...?s=&forumid=52 I post there are "jd-08" (big surprise, huh?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ). Anyway - I'll try to do a search there later today for you. Also - to "tune" the extractor, you only need to need to remove the FPS and insert the extractor's base into the slide ("backwards"), then gently bend it to achieve the correct tension. No pliers required

09-19-2003, 12:16 PM	#17
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I used to have a Dan Wesson revolver, but it went the way of some other gun? Kind of cool the way you could swap barrels so easily. I think I only had the 4 inch barrel. Didn't know they went and made a 45 ACP clone? Will go and read this in a minute, probably save it, as I saved the Rust html, but then you had saved it also. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-19-2003, 01:29 PM	#18
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 471 Thanked 513 Times in 127 Posts	Hi Ed..! No problem.... Here are some threads for you. The first thread, scroll on down - and you'll see some pics on dressing the extractor claw. The rest of the threads are interesting reading (when you have a few hours to spare ) http://www.1911forum.com/forums/show...threadid=47806 http://www.1911forum.com/forums/show...threadid=46492 http://www.1911forum.com/forums/show...threadid=54171 http://www.1911forum.com/forums/show...threadid=44688

09-19-2003, 01:47 PM	#19
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 471 Thanked 513 Times in 127 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Edward Tinker: <strong>.... as I saved the Rust html, but then you had saved it also.....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I didn't save it The SEARCH engines typically keep a cached version - so all I did was performed a SEARCH, opened THEIR cached version - and like magic - there it is