Erfurt and mauser opinions

foxdoublegunner · 04-27-2019, 11:20 PM

Gentlemen,
I apologize in advance for posting my initial message to an incorrect location in the forum in error. I tried to delete it without success and ask that the moderator do so.

I saw an Erfurt 1913 and a Mauser 1937 in the LGS this afternoon and would like your opinions. From what I saw of the serial numbers without diassembly each pistol is matching with the exception of the magazines. The 1937 exhibits more loss of blueing while the 1913 has some spots of surface rust. Both bores appear somewhat worn but still usable. Both need a good cleaning. They are on consignment by the original owners heirs. Asking price for the Erfurt is 1350 and for the 1937 is 1495. What is the opinion of these two pistols-just basic shooters or are they low grade collectibles?

Thank you,
Foxdoublegunner

foxdoublegunner · 04-27-2019, 11:30 PM

Some additional pictures of the 1937 Mauser I saw at the LGS.

Edward Tinker · 04-27-2019, 11:34 PM

I would consider them low end collectables - I think their prices are a bit high by a couple hundred dollars each.

Ed

foxdoublegunner · 04-28-2019, 12:19 AM

Ed,
Thank you for your perspective. I think that there is room for negotiation in both cases.
I currently have a unit marked 1912 Erfurt. I was surprised to see a 1913 Erfurt show up along with the 1937 show up for sale. while I favor WW1 vintage items over WW2, I understand that the metalurgy is a bit more reliable with the WW2 era models. The finishing on the 1937, even though worn, shows a well made pistol.
Of the two which would you consider a better buy from the piint of view of collectibility/desirability?

Foxdoublegunner

DonVoigt · 04-28-2019, 12:31 AM

Unless you are going to shoot 10,000 rounds, any difference in "metallurgy" is insignificant.
They both have + and - features, so it is really up to you.

My advice is work a "deal" and buy both.

If not go for the 1913! JMHO.

DavidJayUden · 04-28-2019, 12:45 AM

If shooting is not part of the equation, I would vote for the 1913. The grips on the '37 are an obvious mismatch, while the 1913 seems a bit more rare to me. And very nice fit and finish on the early WW1 guns.
But this is entirely a personal preference.
dju

Norme · 04-28-2019, 12:49 AM

Hi Ricardo,
If you're looking for a shooter, go with the 1937 Mauser. If you're looking for a collectible you should choose the 1913 Erfurt.
Norm

sheepherder · 04-28-2019, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

My advice is work a "deal" and buy both.

+1

Take cash. Offer ~$2000 and 'negotiate' from there. Don't flash all the money at once. Personally, I would not go over $2200-2300 for these two. If the LGS wouldn't deal for that, I'd walk. But leave my number behind.

foxdoublegunner · 04-29-2019, 01:45 AM

Gentlemen,
Thank you for your advice. Despite already owning a 1912 Erfurt, I like the 1913 Erfurt a bit more than the Mauser. I will need to give this some more thought. They have both been in the store a couple of months so perhaps time is on my side during the possible negotiations. Taking into account taxes and fees in Ca, I would need to have the owner accept a price of about $1100 for the pistol.

Foxdoublegunner

Sergio Natali · 04-29-2019, 05:43 AM

As Ed said they are probably first entry collectibles, but are still "collectibles" I think.
I would prefer the ERFURT, but since the prices as negotiable I would try to get both of them.

foxdoublegunner · 05-02-2019, 08:37 PM

Gentlemen,
I am pretty well decided on making an offer on the 1913 Erfurt. Before I do so, I have a follow up question concerning the surface rust. What would be the most effective and least intrusive method of removing the surface rust without affecting the bluing and straw colors? Is bronze wool dipped in CLP the preferred method and in your collective opinions, would you expect it to be succcesful in cleaning up the majority of the surface rust that is currently on the pistol? I don't expect it to be restored to like new but would like to get it a bit more presentable.

Thank you,
Foxdoublegunner

DonVoigt · 05-02-2019, 10:49 PM

Don't expect the rust to disappear.
If you want a prettier gun, just wait and find one, that 1913 looks like a 105 year old pistol should.
JMHO

foxdoublegunner · 05-02-2019, 10:59 PM

Don,
Thank you. Will a light scrubbing with bronze wool and CLP harm the finish of the bluing and straw?

Ricardo

Norme · 05-03-2019, 08:36 AM

Hi Ricardo,
Extra fine bronze wool and gun oil is what I use. Be very careful removing the grips, 100 year old wood can be very brittle. Remove the right one first and then the left. Don't be surprised if you see heavier rusting under the grips.
Norm

mrerick · 05-03-2019, 09:31 AM

I use well oiled steel or bronze wool on an oiled surface, and don't be too aggressive with the rubbing. It's easy to overdo, and also to do unevenly.

You want to reduce the overall amount of red oxide rust and especially where it's concentrated and will lead to pitting. Keeping it properly oiled with a preserving oil and correct storage will keep it preserved after that.

Take the grips carefully off before you start any of this.

The Erfurt's appearance will eventually grow on you and it's character will become attractive. Just stop any active oxidation. Like Don says, it looks like a 105 year old should look.

foxdoublegunner · 05-03-2019, 07:34 PM

Gentlemen,
I ended up purchasing the 1913 Erfurt Luger for $1125. After looking it over once more and taking the grips off, I think that I will be able to clean it up quite nicely. There is just surface rust under the grips and the the bluing is not worn through as it is on the 1937 Luger that was also for sale. Aside from being filthy it doesn't look too bad for being 116 years old. Apparently the seller is the former owner's daughter who is divesting herself of her Dad's things. We only had to go back and forth on price once so she was obviously happy to just get rid of it to a certain extent.
Thank you all once again for your wise counsel. I will post pictures once it is in hand and I have had a chance to clean it up.

Ricardo

Sergio Natali · 05-04-2019, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Don't expect the rust to disappear.
If you want a prettier gun, just wait and find one, that 1913 looks like a 105 year old pistol should.
JMHO

Exactly, I agree.

foxdoublegunner · 05-04-2019, 11:42 AM

How did I do on the price of $1125? It seemed fair in this area for what I was getting-all matching with the exception of the non-matching Erfurt proofed magazine. It even still has the Erfurt proofed grip screws.

Norme · 05-04-2019, 12:24 PM

I think the price you paid was more than fair (for you).
Norm

bayoned · 05-06-2019, 04:28 PM

I agree, I think you did well !

04-27-2019, 11:20 PM	#1
foxdoublegunner User Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: California and Nevada Posts: 98 Thanks: 63 Thanked 67 Times in 29 Posts	Erfurt and mauser opinions Gentlemen, I apologize in advance for posting my initial message to an incorrect location in the forum in error. I tried to delete it without success and ask that the moderator do so. I saw an Erfurt 1913 and a Mauser 1937 in the LGS this afternoon and would like your opinions. From what I saw of the serial numbers without diassembly each pistol is matching with the exception of the magazines. The 1937 exhibits more loss of blueing while the 1913 has some spots of surface rust. Both bores appear somewhat worn but still usable. Both need a good cleaning. They are on consignment by the original owners heirs. Asking price for the Erfurt is 1350 and for the 1937 is 1495. What is the opinion of these two pistols-just basic shooters or are they low grade collectibles? Thank you, Foxdoublegunner Attached Thumbnails

04-27-2019, 11:30 PM	#2
foxdoublegunner User Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: California and Nevada Posts: 98 Thanks: 63 Thanked 67 Times in 29 Posts	Some additional pictures of the 1937 Mauser I saw at the LGS. Attached Thumbnails

04-28-2019, 12:31 AM	#5
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Unless you are going to shoot 10,000 rounds, any difference in "metallurgy" is insignificant. They both have + and - features, so it is really up to you. My advice is work a "deal" and buy both. If not go for the 1913! JMHO. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

04-29-2019, 05:43 AM	#10
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	As Ed said they are probably first entry collectibles, but are still "collectibles" I think. I would prefer the ERFURT, but since the prices as negotiable I would try to get both of them. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

05-02-2019, 10:49 PM	#12
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Don't expect the rust to disappear. If you want a prettier gun, just wait and find one, that 1913 looks like a 105 year old pistol should. JMHO __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

04-27-2019, 11:34 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,931 Thanks: 2,031 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	I would consider them low end collectables - I think their prices are a bit high by a couple hundred dollars each. Ed

04-28-2019, 12:19 AM	#4
foxdoublegunner User Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: California and Nevada Posts: 98 Thanks: 63 Thanked 67 Times in 29 Posts	Ed, Thank you for your perspective. I think that there is room for negotiation in both cases. I currently have a unit marked 1912 Erfurt. I was surprised to see a 1913 Erfurt show up along with the 1937 show up for sale. while I favor WW1 vintage items over WW2, I understand that the metalurgy is a bit more reliable with the WW2 era models. The finishing on the 1937, even though worn, shows a well made pistol. Of the two which would you consider a better buy from the piint of view of collectibility/desirability? Foxdoublegunner

04-28-2019, 12:45 AM	#6
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	If shooting is not part of the equation, I would vote for the 1913. The grips on the '37 are an obvious mismatch, while the 1913 seems a bit more rare to me. And very nice fit and finish on the early WW1 guns. But this is entirely a personal preference. dju

04-28-2019, 12:49 AM	#7
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Ricardo, If you're looking for a shooter, go with the 1937 Mauser. If you're looking for a collectible you should choose the 1913 Erfurt. Norm

04-29-2019, 01:45 AM	#9
foxdoublegunner User Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: California and Nevada Posts: 98 Thanks: 63 Thanked 67 Times in 29 Posts	Gentlemen, Thank you for your advice. Despite already owning a 1912 Erfurt, I like the 1913 Erfurt a bit more than the Mauser. I will need to give this some more thought. They have both been in the store a couple of months so perhaps time is on my side during the possible negotiations. Taking into account taxes and fees in Ca, I would need to have the owner accept a price of about $1100 for the pistol. Foxdoublegunner

05-02-2019, 08:37 PM	#11
foxdoublegunner User Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: California and Nevada Posts: 98 Thanks: 63 Thanked 67 Times in 29 Posts	Gentlemen, I am pretty well decided on making an offer on the 1913 Erfurt. Before I do so, I have a follow up question concerning the surface rust. What would be the most effective and least intrusive method of removing the surface rust without affecting the bluing and straw colors? Is bronze wool dipped in CLP the preferred method and in your collective opinions, would you expect it to be succcesful in cleaning up the majority of the surface rust that is currently on the pistol? I don't expect it to be restored to like new but would like to get it a bit more presentable. Thank you, Foxdoublegunner

05-02-2019, 10:59 PM	#13
foxdoublegunner User Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: California and Nevada Posts: 98 Thanks: 63 Thanked 67 Times in 29 Posts	Don, Thank you. Will a light scrubbing with bronze wool and CLP harm the finish of the bluing and straw? Ricardo

05-03-2019, 08:36 AM	#14
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Ricardo, Extra fine bronze wool and gun oil is what I use. Be very careful removing the grips, 100 year old wood can be very brittle. Remove the right one first and then the left. Don't be surprised if you see heavier rusting under the grips. Norm

05-03-2019, 09:31 AM	#15
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	I use well oiled steel or bronze wool on an oiled surface, and don't be too aggressive with the rubbing. It's easy to overdo, and also to do unevenly. You want to reduce the overall amount of red oxide rust and especially where it's concentrated and will lead to pitting. Keeping it properly oiled with a preserving oil and correct storage will keep it preserved after that. Take the grips carefully off before you start any of this. The Erfurt's appearance will eventually grow on you and it's character will become attractive. Just stop any active oxidation. Like Don says, it looks like a 105 year old should look. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

05-03-2019, 07:34 PM	#16
foxdoublegunner User Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: California and Nevada Posts: 98 Thanks: 63 Thanked 67 Times in 29 Posts	Gentlemen, I ended up purchasing the 1913 Erfurt Luger for $1125. After looking it over once more and taking the grips off, I think that I will be able to clean it up quite nicely. There is just surface rust under the grips and the the bluing is not worn through as it is on the 1937 Luger that was also for sale. Aside from being filthy it doesn't look too bad for being 116 years old. Apparently the seller is the former owner's daughter who is divesting herself of her Dad's things. We only had to go back and forth on price once so she was obviously happy to just get rid of it to a certain extent. Thank you all once again for your wise counsel. I will post pictures once it is in hand and I have had a chance to clean it up. Ricardo

05-04-2019, 11:42 AM	#18
foxdoublegunner User Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: California and Nevada Posts: 98 Thanks: 63 Thanked 67 Times in 29 Posts	How did I do on the price of $1125? It seemed fair in this area for what I was getting-all matching with the exception of the non-matching Erfurt proofed magazine. It even still has the Erfurt proofed grip screws.

05-04-2019, 12:24 PM	#19
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	I think the price you paid was more than fair (for you). Norm

05-06-2019, 04:28 PM	#20
bayoned User Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 14 Thanks: 1 Thanked 9 Times in 5 Posts	I agree, I think you did well !