DWM Commercial Luger Fraktur ID

lowe210 · 09-20-2010, 12:57 PM

I have what appears to be a commercial DWM luger with SN 20xx and a fraktur letter I can't identify well (see attached photo). The pistol has what looks to be a 3 1/4" barrel, the "Crown over N" stamp on the left receiver and left toggle, and the "Germany" stamp on the right receiver just above the grip. Grips are checkered wood. All numbers seem to match except on the clip. There is a lanyard loop on the rear of the receiver and the backstrap has an attachment lug for a removable stock. DWM is on the top of the toggle in script. Can anyone ID the fraktur letter from my attached photo and can you tell me the date of manufacture and anything else of interest about this pistol?

Frank · 09-20-2010, 01:17 PM

Hello Lowe! The script suffix letter is a "P".

Hope this helps a little.

MFC · 09-21-2010, 12:38 AM

Hi Steve,
Your Luger is classified as an Alphabet DWM Commercial (formerly known as a 1920 commecial). 20xxp was made in 1926 by DWM. It was produced for the US civilian market and export stamped "Germany" according to US law. The barrel should be 30 cal/7.65mm and 3 7/8'' long, measured from the muzzle to the breech face.

lowe210 · 09-21-2010, 09:19 AM

Thanks for all the info. It is a great help. The Luger is in great shape (probably 70 to 90%). I don't plan to sell, but any idea of the approximate value of the pistol?

mrerick · 09-21-2010, 10:35 AM

The DWM Alphabet commercial Lugers are relatively common, and don't have the collector appeal that military proofed guns do.

Sounds like your Luger hasn't been "messed with" and is in the original factory configuration and finish. The magazines for these were not normally numbered.

I paid $675 recently for one in original factory finish, with original magazine and in very good condition.

Marc

RJS · 09-23-2010, 08:31 PM

I paid 900 for mine. I routinely see these advertised for well over $1000, but they don't seem to selling at that level. Check the Simpson Ltd. web sight; there are pages of commercials at very high prices.

A.Mifsin · 09-24-2010, 06:26 AM

Without hijacking Lowe210 thread, I need some advice on my 41-42 Luger letter suffix.
My Luger has a letter suffix that at first it looks like an N, but looking through the book The Mauser Parabellum 1930-1946, the letter N suffix of the 41-42 Luger is different from mine, on my Luger it looks like a P, but with a short leg or stem.
In the photo I included two inserts of the letter N on the left and the letter P on the right for comparison.
Could it be it is that way because it was stamped on the curve of the front frame? Thanks for any suggestions.
Alf.

alanint · 09-24-2010, 07:28 AM

I agree that it is a "P" that got cut short by the curve in the metal

A.Mifsin · 09-24-2010, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

I agree that it is a "P" that got cut short by the curve in the metal

Thanks alanint, that what I thought also.

Alf.

Frank · 09-24-2010, 09:48 AM

There are several configurations of the Mauser suffix letters. The 8216 (?) you show, is correct for a "N" suffix. The "N" shown in the small picture would be found on 1936 or 1938 Lugers.

While a very few 41 Code 42 Lugers are reported in the P-Block, the bulk are frpm the N-Block.

A.Mifsin · 09-24-2010, 11:01 AM

Frank, the P block of the 41-42 luger 500 are reported.
The letter suffix on this Luger is more a P than an-N from the letters photos provided, ....I think.
It seems that the P suffix was divided by the 41-42 and the 41-byf Lugers.
Alf.

Frank · 09-24-2010, 03:18 PM

Alf, the 41/42 Lugers were produced during the month of January 1941. The production was pretty well completed at about 5000o.

If you are looking at the Hallock/Kant Book on suffix nomenclature, there are a number of errors.

Of course, you can believe what you wish, but I can't believe there were 500 41/42 Lugers in the P-Block.

A.Mifsin · 09-25-2010, 02:42 AM

Frank, What you say may be true, myself found a couple of issues that I do not agree about them.
Now back to my Luger, if the letter stamps that were stamped during the 41-42 Luger production were what the book display, then I am sure that the letter suffix on this Luger is not an N, is more like the P with a short stem. For sure is, that the frame of this Luger is the late Mauser frame, because it has the P08 mark on the left side. The gun is all matching, the grips are marked SE655 on both. I am sure that this Luger is correct, but if it is in the N or P that is what I am trying to find out. Thanks for your output.
Alf.

MFC · 09-25-2010, 03:11 AM

Alf,
I beleive it is 8216n. The vertical line of a 'p' suffix is taller than the line on a 'n'. Also the bottom of the line is squared off and ends abrubtly. If it were an impartial stamp because of the curve, the line would fade out.
Just my 2 cents.

A.Mifsin · 09-25-2010, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFC

Alf,
I beleive it is 8216n. The vertical line of a 'p' suffix is taller than the line on a 'n'. Also the bottom of the line is squared off and ends abrubtly. If it were an impartial stamp because of the curve, the line would fade out.
Just my 2 cents.

Probably, as a matter of fact, Herman Historica listed the gun as 8216N. The fact that I have doubts is because I saw the serial No letters of the 41-42 range in the book The Mauser Parabellum 1930-1946, and it is clear that it is not an N, at least as illustrated in this book.
Could it be there is another N stamped that was used during that year.

Alf.

09-20-2010, 12:57 PM	#1
lowe210 New User Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	DWM Commercial Luger Fraktur ID I have what appears to be a commercial DWM luger with SN 20xx and a fraktur letter I can't identify well (see attached photo). The pistol has what looks to be a 3 1/4" barrel, the "Crown over N" stamp on the left receiver and left toggle, and the "Germany" stamp on the right receiver just above the grip. Grips are checkered wood. All numbers seem to match except on the clip. There is a lanyard loop on the rear of the receiver and the backstrap has an attachment lug for a removable stock. DWM is on the top of the toggle in script. Can anyone ID the fraktur letter from my attached photo and can you tell me the date of manufacture and anything else of interest about this pistol? Attached Thumbnails

09-21-2010, 12:38 AM	#3
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Hi Steve, Your Luger is classified as an Alphabet DWM Commercial (formerly known as a 1920 commecial). 20xxp was made in 1926 by DWM. It was produced for the US civilian market and export stamped "Germany" according to US law. The barrel should be 30 cal/7.65mm and 3 7/8'' long, measured from the muzzle to the breech face. __________________ Mike C.

09-21-2010, 10:35 AM	#5
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	The DWM Alphabet commercial Lugers are relatively common, and don't have the collector appeal that military proofed guns do. Sounds like your Luger hasn't been "messed with" and is in the original factory configuration and finish. The magazines for these were not normally numbered. I paid $675 recently for one in original factory finish, with original magazine and in very good condition. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-23-2010, 08:31 PM	#6
RJS User Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vermont Posts: 45 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	value of 30 cal gun I paid 900 for mine. I routinely see these advertised for well over $1000, but they don't seem to selling at that level. Check the Simpson Ltd. web sight; there are pages of commercials at very high prices. Attached Thumbnails

09-24-2010, 06:26 AM	#7
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Letter suffix P Without hijacking Lowe210 thread, I need some advice on my 41-42 Luger letter suffix. My Luger has a letter suffix that at first it looks like an N, but looking through the book The Mauser Parabellum 1930-1946, the letter N suffix of the 41-42 Luger is different from mine, on my Luger it looks like a P, but with a short leg or stem. In the photo I included two inserts of the letter N on the left and the letter P on the right for comparison. Could it be it is that way because it was stamped on the curve of the front frame? Thanks for any suggestions. Alf. Attached Thumbnails __________________ I prefer a Luger

09-20-2010, 01:17 PM	#2
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Hello Lowe! The script suffix letter is a "P". Hope this helps a little.

09-21-2010, 09:19 AM	#4
lowe210 New User Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for all the info. It is a great help. The Luger is in great shape (probably 70 to 90%). I don't plan to sell, but any idea of the approximate value of the pistol?

09-24-2010, 07:28 AM	#8
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	I agree that it is a "P" that got cut short by the curve in the metal

09-24-2010, 09:48 AM	#10
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	There are several configurations of the Mauser suffix letters. The 8216 (?) you show, is correct for a "N" suffix. The "N" shown in the small picture would be found on 1936 or 1938 Lugers. While a very few 41 Code 42 Lugers are reported in the P-Block, the bulk are frpm the N-Block.

09-24-2010, 11:01 AM	#11
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Frank, the P block of the 41-42 luger 500 are reported. The letter suffix on this Luger is more a P than an-N from the letters photos provided, ....I think. It seems that the P suffix was divided by the 41-42 and the 41-byf Lugers. Alf. __________________ I prefer a Luger

09-24-2010, 03:18 PM	#12
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Alf, the 41/42 Lugers were produced during the month of January 1941. The production was pretty well completed at about 5000o. If you are looking at the Hallock/Kant Book on suffix nomenclature, there are a number of errors. Of course, you can believe what you wish, but I can't believe there were 500 41/42 Lugers in the P-Block.

09-25-2010, 02:42 AM	#13
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Frank, What you say may be true, myself found a couple of issues that I do not agree about them. Now back to my Luger, if the letter stamps that were stamped during the 41-42 Luger production were what the book display, then I am sure that the letter suffix on this Luger is not an N, is more like the P with a short stem. For sure is, that the frame of this Luger is the late Mauser frame, because it has the P08 mark on the left side. The gun is all matching, the grips are marked SE655 on both. I am sure that this Luger is correct, but if it is in the N or P that is what I am trying to find out. Thanks for your output. Alf. __________________ I prefer a Luger

09-25-2010, 03:11 AM	#14
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Alf, I beleive it is 8216n. The vertical line of a 'p' suffix is taller than the line on a 'n'. Also the bottom of the line is squared off and ends abrubtly. If it were an impartial stamp because of the curve, the line would fade out. Just my 2 cents. __________________ Mike C.