Check out this combo

Roadkill · 05-03-2002, 04:10 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1825205058

Orv Reichert · 05-03-2002, 04:23 PM

I don't think the thing would work as is? The weight of the barrel ass'y would not allow the top half to recoil enough to actuate the bolt through it's full cycle? I believe some type of accelerator would be necessary?

I also don't know what the legal ramifications are of making a rifle out of a pistol? The reverse is not legal!

Orv Reichert

John Sabato · 05-03-2002, 04:45 PM

If the pistol barrel is more than 16" then no tax is required when you stock it. If the barrel is shorter than 16" then the same $200 NFA tax applies as when you take a rifle and make it shorter than 26" overall or cut the barrel less than 16"

regards,

John

Lonnie Zimmerman · 05-03-2002, 04:47 PM

A 8oz holosight weighs to much for the action to cycle. I have tried it. The 2oz Docter sight will allow the action to cycle, however.

Lonnie

Roadkill · 05-03-2002, 07:22 PM

Would it work? How does it work on a carbine? If you are holding the front stock how does the receiver traverse rearwards? I've obviously not fired a carbine or even thought about it till Orv mentioned that.

Roadkill

Ron Wood · 05-03-2002, 07:45 PM

The forearm of a carbine is not attached to the barrel. It is attached to an extension of the frame. So the barrel is essentially "free-floating", and holding on to the forearm has no effect on the movement of the action. Having said that, the barrel on ebay has the forearm attached to the barrel. If you look at the photo, there is probably a 3/8" gap between the rear of the forearm and the rear barrel flange. That is designed to allow the barrel/receiver assembly to move to the rear during firing. If you held on to the forearm while you are firing, obviously you would impede this rearward movement and the action probably would not function properly (Nah, it wouldn't function!) That is independent of whether the weight of the barrel/forearm assembly would be too heavy to cycle. So the forearm on the ebay barrel is just for looks, kind of like mammarys on a boar.

Roadkill · 05-03-2002, 08:29 PM

Makes sense. Thanks! How far does the barrel assy have to travel back to cycle the action? And does the rearward action of the barrel assy or the bolt recoil kick the toggle back?

Roadkill

Ron Wood · 05-03-2002, 09:30 PM

I am not exactly sure of the physical dimension of the rearward travel of the barrel assembly to cycle the action (without going downstairs and measuring the action, I would guess about 3/8"). The barrel/receiver assembly is locked with the toggle assembly in recoil until the toggle knobs contact the frame ramp. At that point, the toggle knobs move upward, breaking the straight line of the breechblock/forward toggle link/rear toggle link train. Now the toggle train is no longer "locked" and the inertia of the breechblock will cause it to move away from the barrel and extract the spent cartridge case.

Thor · 05-03-2002, 09:58 PM

Please email me your phone number! I would like to call you! Thor

Roadkill · 05-03-2002, 10:04 PM

I had a good idea of that but wasn't sure of the sequence. Its interesting about the carbines though. The engineering factors continue to amaze me.

Roadkill

Dwight Gruber · 05-04-2002, 03:07 AM

The American Rifleman article on the 1980 Mauser Carbine notes that the 1902 DWM Carbine has an auxiliary recoil spring mounted in the forearm, and a lug on the bottom of the barrel which engages the spring. This is no doubt due to the special, higher-powered .30 rounds produced for these guns in order to move the greater mass of the works with the long barrel.

In test firing the Mauser Carbine, they noted that most American ammunition (1n 1980) was too puny to feed reliably. The only ammunition they found which would consistently operate the Carbine was Berdan-primed, surplus Czech ammo, and Canadian military ammunition.

--Dwight

Johnny Peppers · 05-04-2002, 09:19 AM

The spring in the forearm was to aid in bringing the barrel and receiver back into battery. The leaf spring lacked the tension to always return the barrel into battery. The 1920 carbines lacked this feature as the coil spring was strong enough to complete the firing cycle without assistance.

05-03-2002, 04:10 PM	#1
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Check out this combo http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1825205058

05-03-2002, 04:23 PM	#2
Orv Reichert RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SW Washington State Posts: 339 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	would it work? I don't think the thing would work as is? The weight of the barrel ass'y would not allow the top half to recoil enough to actuate the bolt through it's full cycle? I believe some type of accelerator would be necessary? I also don't know what the legal ramifications are of making a rifle out of a pistol? The reverse is not legal! Orv Reichert

05-03-2002, 04:45 PM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Both are legal Orv - but rifle to pistol= $200 ta If the pistol barrel is more than 16" then no tax is required when you stock it. If the barrel is shorter than 16" then the same $200 NFA tax applies as when you take a rifle and make it shorter than 26" overall or cut the barrel less than 16" regards, John

05-03-2002, 04:47 PM	#4
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: would it work? A 8oz holosight weighs to much for the action to cycle. I have tried it. The 2oz Docter sight will allow the action to cycle, however. Lonnie

05-03-2002, 07:22 PM	#5
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Re: would it work? Would it work? How does it work on a carbine? If you are holding the front stock how does the receiver traverse rearwards? I've obviously not fired a carbine or even thought about it till Orv mentioned that. Roadkill

05-03-2002, 07:45 PM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Carbine The forearm of a carbine is not attached to the barrel. It is attached to an extension of the frame. So the barrel is essentially "free-floating", and holding on to the forearm has no effect on the movement of the action. Having said that, the barrel on ebay has the forearm attached to the barrel. If you look at the photo, there is probably a 3/8" gap between the rear of the forearm and the rear barrel flange. That is designed to allow the barrel/receiver assembly to move to the rear during firing. If you held on to the forearm while you are firing, obviously you would impede this rearward movement and the action probably would not function properly (Nah, it wouldn't function!) That is independent of whether the weight of the barrel/forearm assembly would be too heavy to cycle. So the forearm on the ebay barrel is just for looks, kind of like mammarys on a boar.

05-03-2002, 08:29 PM	#7
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Re: Carbine Makes sense. Thanks! How far does the barrel assy have to travel back to cycle the action? And does the rearward action of the barrel assy or the bolt recoil kick the toggle back? Roadkill

05-03-2002, 09:30 PM	#8
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Re: Carbine I am not exactly sure of the physical dimension of the rearward travel of the barrel assembly to cycle the action (without going downstairs and measuring the action, I would guess about 3/8"). The barrel/receiver assembly is locked with the toggle assembly in recoil until the toggle knobs contact the frame ramp. At that point, the toggle knobs move upward, breaking the straight line of the breechblock/forward toggle link/rear toggle link train. Now the toggle train is no longer "locked" and the inertia of the breechblock will cause it to move away from the barrel and extract the spent cartridge case.

05-03-2002, 09:58 PM	#9
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Ron Wood....... Please email me your phone number! I would like to call you! Thor

05-03-2002, 10:04 PM	#10
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Re: Carbine I had a good idea of that but wasn't sure of the sequence. Its interesting about the carbines though. The engineering factors continue to amaze me. Roadkill

05-04-2002, 03:07 AM	#11
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	Re: would it work? The American Rifleman article on the 1980 Mauser Carbine notes that the 1902 DWM Carbine has an auxiliary recoil spring mounted in the forearm, and a lug on the bottom of the barrel which engages the spring. This is no doubt due to the special, higher-powered .30 rounds produced for these guns in order to move the greater mass of the works with the long barrel. In test firing the Mauser Carbine, they noted that most American ammunition (1n 1980) was too puny to feed reliably. The only ammunition they found which would consistently operate the Carbine was Berdan-primed, surplus Czech ammo, and Canadian military ammunition. --Dwight

05-04-2002, 09:19 AM	#12
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: would it work? The spring in the forearm was to aid in bringing the barrel and receiver back into battery. The leaf spring lacked the tension to always return the barrel into battery. The 1920 carbines lacked this feature as the coil spring was strong enough to complete the firing cycle without assistance.