Help with i.d. of magazine

Andyd · 08-29-2012, 11:46 PM

I need your help again to identify a nickel plated magazine with a wood bottom.

It has no markings at all, the wooden bottom is in excellent condition and the magazine body barely has a scratch. The follower is out of metal and it has the round spring.

I got it together with two extruded Haenel fxo and one Vopo 1001 magazine in a package deal.

It appears original to me with my limited experience on P.08 mags from this era. My first question is to its originality, then the maker, and of course the value. I want to know if I got the good deal that I thinbk I got.

Your help is appreciated.

Ron Wood · 08-30-2012, 02:36 AM

Very excellent appearing magazine. Without markings it would be a commercial magazine made by DWM and could have been produced from late 1900 to the 1920s. I would suspect it dates from 1906-1908 production.

Andyd · 08-30-2012, 05:31 AM

Thank you very much, Ron!

I had hoped for this to be original but the condition is almost too good to believe that this magazine is over 100 years old.

Is the value of a commercial DWM magazine comparable to an fxo WaA37 magazine? My guess on the value is about $150. Is that about right?

CJS57 · 08-30-2012, 07:43 AM

Yes, that or more.

lugerholsterrepair · 08-30-2012, 08:28 AM

Ron, I can't see as well as I like from the photo's but the indent below the feed lips near the follower button looks like a rectangle not a half moon...Any thoughts on that?

Andy..can you confirm the shape of this small dimple? It is on both sides of the magazine. It will be either a half moon shape or a rectangle.

alanint · 08-30-2012, 09:24 AM

I also agree that it looks more like an Erfurt rectangle.

George Anderson · 08-30-2012, 09:54 AM

It is a flat dimple and is an early DWM magazine as Ron Wood posted. I have a number of early DWM commercial mags with the flat dimple.

Andyd · 08-30-2012, 02:59 PM

It appears to be a straight dimple, not half moon shaped.

I am a bad shot with the camera and hope you can see this well enough to clearly identify the dimples.

What do you guys think is it worth? I will tell you later what I stole it for.

lugerholsterrepair · 08-30-2012, 03:36 PM

Well..There are only a couple of guys I would believe with such a tale and they have put the matter to rest!
Thanks George, Ron..

Thanks for the photo's Andy!

Andyd · 08-30-2012, 04:02 PM

Thank you Lugerholsterrepair. I am certain now to have an original DWM magazine from the very early production period; 1906 to 1908.

I am amazed that it is over 100 years old and still looks like it!

Thank you, guys!

mrerick · 08-30-2012, 04:05 PM

About when did the DWM magazines start to show the "D" shape dimple? Was there a period when both are seen?

Marc

Ron Wood · 08-30-2012, 04:30 PM

Actually, now that I have seen the closeups, I do not know exactly. The follower button looks Erfurt, but unless the base has been replaced the magazine is an early DWM commercial.

lugerholsterrepair · 08-30-2012, 04:42 PM

Ron! Now your waffeling on me? I don't know about youse guys..

G.T. · 08-30-2012, 04:55 PM

Normally & usually, I've seen quite a few mags with the rectangular staked follower stop....I believe them to be Erfurt...usually...but, I've seen just enough of them with obviously factory installed DWM bottoms to know that a few jumped the fence each way, and visa versa...sooooooo, to me, in my new found standard...it is easier to group them by wood magazine base then shell manufacture charcteristics ..I don't think the shells were made inhouse anyway... close ups of the wood base are the next step... also, early DWM's are an animal all unto their own.. a study all by themselves... best to all, til...lat'r...GT

lugerholsterrepair · 08-30-2012, 05:17 PM

Dang! Just when I think I know something!

Norme · 08-30-2012, 05:28 PM

According to Sturgess, magazines made prior to 1912 had follower slots 99.2mm long. This was lengthened by a millimeter in 1912 to 100.2mm. I actually went to the trouble of checking this out (you know, "trust, but verify") with a few Navy mags I own, and, as usual, the good Doctor was right. Regards, Norm

lugerholsterrepair · 08-30-2012, 06:50 PM

Norm, That is very handy information to have! Thanks

The only bug in that ointment is.. I have seen many a follower button shaft beat the hell out of the top of the follower slot possibly making an accurate original measurement slightly off?

Andyd · 08-30-2012, 11:43 PM

Norme,

mine is a tad under 100mm. Thanks for the very interesting info.

Here are some detailed photos of the wooden base.

Ben M. · 08-31-2012, 08:31 PM

i would not hesitate to pay $ 250 for that magazine if i ran across it at a gun show table.

Andyd · 09-01-2012, 11:40 PM

Thanks Ben,

that is encouraging to hear. It makes up for all the times that I have spent too much.

I am not really much of a collector but rather a shooter that enjoys accumulating high quality guns and accessories.

08-29-2012, 11:46 PM	#1
Andyd User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Kaufman County, Texas Posts: 48 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Help with i.d. of magazine I need your help again to identify a nickel plated magazine with a wood bottom. It has no markings at all, the wooden bottom is in excellent condition and the magazine body barely has a scratch. The follower is out of metal and it has the round spring. I got it together with two extruded Haenel fxo and one Vopo 1001 magazine in a package deal. It appears original to me with my limited experience on P.08 mags from this era. My first question is to its originality, then the maker, and of course the value. I want to know if I got the good deal that I thinbk I got. Your help is appreciated.

08-30-2012, 02:36 AM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,017 Thanks: 1,089 Thanked 5,164 Times in 1,700 Posts	Very excellent appearing magazine. Without markings it would be a commercial magazine made by DWM and could have been produced from late 1900 to the 1920s. I would suspect it dates from 1906-1908 production. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-30-2012, 08:28 AM	#5
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,922 Thanked 3,123 Times in 1,434 Posts	Ron, I can't see as well as I like from the photo's but the indent below the feed lips near the follower button looks like a rectangle not a half moon...Any thoughts on that? Andy..can you confirm the shape of this small dimple? It is on both sides of the magazine. It will be either a half moon shape or a rectangle. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-30-2012, 03:36 PM	#9
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,922 Thanked 3,123 Times in 1,434 Posts	Well..There are only a couple of guys I would believe with such a tale and they have put the matter to rest! Thanks George, Ron.. Thanks for the photo's Andy! __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-30-2012, 04:05 PM	#11
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,907 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts	About when did the DWM magazines start to show the "D" shape dimple? Was there a period when both are seen? Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

08-30-2012, 05:31 AM	#3
Andyd User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Kaufman County, Texas Posts: 48 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you very much, Ron! I had hoped for this to be original but the condition is almost too good to believe that this magazine is over 100 years old. Is the value of a commercial DWM magazine comparable to an fxo WaA37 magazine? My guess on the value is about $150. Is that about right?

08-30-2012, 07:43 AM	#4
CJS57 User Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 224 Thanks: 0 Thanked 81 Times in 41 Posts	Yes, that or more.

08-30-2012, 09:24 AM	#6
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	I also agree that it looks more like an Erfurt rectangle.

08-30-2012, 09:54 AM	#7
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	It is a flat dimple and is an early DWM magazine as Ron Wood posted. I have a number of early DWM commercial mags with the flat dimple.

08-30-2012, 02:59 PM	#8
Andyd User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Kaufman County, Texas Posts: 48 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It appears to be a straight dimple, not half moon shaped. I am a bad shot with the camera and hope you can see this well enough to clearly identify the dimples. What do you guys think is it worth? I will tell you later what I stole it for.

08-30-2012, 04:02 PM	#10
Andyd User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Kaufman County, Texas Posts: 48 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you Lugerholsterrepair. I am certain now to have an original DWM magazine from the very early production period; 1906 to 1908. I am amazed that it is over 100 years old and still looks like it! Thank you, guys!

08-30-2012, 04:30 PM	#12
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,017 Thanks: 1,089 Thanked 5,164 Times in 1,700 Posts	Actually, now that I have seen the closeups, I do not know exactly. The follower button looks Erfurt, but unless the base has been replaced the magazine is an early DWM commercial. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-30-2012, 04:42 PM	#13
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,922 Thanked 3,123 Times in 1,434 Posts	Ron! Now your waffeling on me? I don't know about youse guys.. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-30-2012, 04:55 PM	#14
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,503 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,641 Times in 1,002 Posts	It could be either... Normally & usually, I've seen quite a few mags with the rectangular staked follower stop....I believe them to be Erfurt...usually...but, I've seen just enough of them with obviously factory installed DWM bottoms to know that a few jumped the fence each way, and visa versa...sooooooo, to me, in my new found standard...it is easier to group them by wood magazine base then shell manufacture charcteristics ..I don't think the shells were made inhouse anyway... close ups of the wood base are the next step... also, early DWM's are an animal all unto their own.. a study all by themselves... best to all, til...lat'r...GT

08-30-2012, 05:17 PM	#15
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,922 Thanked 3,123 Times in 1,434 Posts	Dang! Just when I think I know something! __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-30-2012, 05:28 PM	#16
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	According to Sturgess, magazines made prior to 1912 had follower slots 99.2mm long. This was lengthened by a millimeter in 1912 to 100.2mm. I actually went to the trouble of checking this out (you know, "trust, but verify") with a few Navy mags I own, and, as usual, the good Doctor was right. Regards, Norm

08-30-2012, 06:50 PM	#17
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,922 Thanked 3,123 Times in 1,434 Posts	Norm, That is very handy information to have! Thanks The only bug in that ointment is.. I have seen many a follower button shaft beat the hell out of the top of the follower slot possibly making an accurate original measurement slightly off? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-30-2012, 11:43 PM	#18
Andyd User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Kaufman County, Texas Posts: 48 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Norme, mine is a tad under 100mm. Thanks for the very interesting info. Here are some detailed photos of the wooden base.

08-31-2012, 08:31 PM	#19
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 486 Thanks: 86 Thanked 121 Times in 81 Posts	i would not hesitate to pay $ 250 for that magazine if i ran across it at a gun show table.

09-01-2012, 11:40 PM	#20
Andyd User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Kaufman County, Texas Posts: 48 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Ben, that is encouraging to hear. It makes up for all the times that I have spent too much. I am not really much of a collector but rather a shooter that enjoys accumulating high quality guns and accessories.