LugerForum Discussion Forums my profile | register | faq | search
upload photo | donate | calendar

Go Back   LugerForum Discussion Forums > General Discussion Forums > Holster Forum

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 05-01-2020, 02:16 PM   #21
lugerholsterrepair
Moderator
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
lugerholsterrepair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Arizona/Colorado
Posts: 7,756
Thanks: 4,822
Thanked 3,087 Times in 1,423 Posts
Default

The German Army used it, through 1945, on wood, leather goods and for gun cleaning; as it was designed and formulated to do just that. Neats Foot oil was designed to soften the newly applied stiff soles of shoes and to repel water. Disposable and used used up eventually.


What the German Army used during combat use is totally wrong for the preservation of static collectables 100 years later. Army's are not interested in anything but SHORT term preservation. As collectors we are interested in LONG term. Actual preservation, not use.



Neats foot oil is DEATH..IMMEDIATE DEATH to vintage holsters. One drop of it instantly penetrates from the front where it is put on through a quarter inch of leather to the back. INSTANTLY! It becomes an oil soaked rag taking out any form put into the holster 89-100 years ago by the water wet molding process. Ballistol is no different. Ballistol is a different type of oil is all. It is STILL AN OIL.



Vegetable tanned leather is made up of long fibers, interlaced fingers giving it strength & stability. These fibers have friction and stay where they are because the friction is dry and natural. It's as if you interlace your fingers together..it is quite difficult to pull your hands apart..UNLESS you pour OIL on your interlaced fingers. Now your fingers/fibers will easily slip and slide, unable to keep any form or stay together.

When a Luger holster was initially formed the wet leather is draped over a skeleton mold and quickly dried. It will maintain this form BECAUSE of the fibers having swelled when wet but now when dried have shrunken into one another and forms a tight bond. This bond/form as we all know is still with us 80-120 years later. If the form is taken care of, not squashed out of shape or otherwise abused it stays the way it was intended. The worst malady this shape/bond/form can meet is slippery oil. It PENETRATES and surrounds once tight fibers and allows them to slip & slide. This travesty is only one of many problems that WILL take place with the use of Ballistol or Neats Foot oil or ANY OIL put on a vintage static holster.



Once any type of oil is applied to a vintage static holster the damage is done and irreversible. It cannot be removed. Like a sponge, leather will soak up an amazing amount of oil but unlike a sponge you cannot just wring it out. Another type of damage after oil application is the leather now cannot absorb and expel air & moisture. Oil also attracts dirt, debris and Ballistol expressly stated that their special oil is edible! Well if I can eat it, so can the microbes.



I state my case as gently as possible as everyone here I consider a friend. I don't try to change your minds, they are made up already, but to get other collectors to think about care, preservation and the subject at hand, the eradication of mold. My favorite is heat. unlike oil, it can be applied and then removed. Just as alcohol or acetone is benign, applied then removed. Even water cannot be applied & removed..it changes form, moves color, shrinks & expands. IT is NOT benign to vegetable tanned leather.



I have seen way TOO many holsters damaged by oil to remain silent. The worst ones get that way by the overuse of oil on a pistol which then wicks off the pistol onto holster muzzles, mag pouch bottoms or wherever, hardening to a black brittle scab that when probed, crumbles, similar to a burnt pastry crust.
__________________
Jerry Burney
11491 S. Guadalupe Drive

Yuma AZ 85367-6182


lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net

928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round
719 207-3331 (cell)


"For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."
lugerholsterrepair is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 4 members says Thank You to lugerholsterrepair for your post:
Unread 05-01-2020, 03:19 PM   #22
Sieger
User
 
Sieger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 1,575
Thanks: 2,124
Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair View Post
The German Army used it, through 1945, on wood, leather goods and for gun cleaning; as it was designed and formulated to do just that. Neats Foot oil was designed to soften the newly applied stiff soles of shoes and to repel water. Disposable and used used up eventually.


What the German Army used during combat use is totally wrong for the preservation of static collectables 100 years later. Army's are not interested in anything but SHORT term preservation. As collectors we are interested in LONG term. Actual preservation, not use.



Neats foot oil is DEATH..IMMEDIATE DEATH to vintage holsters. One drop of it instantly penetrates from the front where it is put on through a quarter inch of leather to the back. INSTANTLY! It becomes an oil soaked rag taking out any form put into the holster 89-100 years ago by the water wet molding process. Ballistol is no different. Ballistol is a different type of oil is all. It is STILL AN OIL.



Vegetable tanned leather is made up of long fibers, interlaced fingers giving it strength & stability. These fibers have friction and stay where they are because the friction is dry and natural. It's as if you interlace your fingers together..it is quite difficult to pull your hands apart..UNLESS you pour OIL on your interlaced fingers. Now your fingers/fibers will easily slip and slide, unable to keep any form or stay together.

When a Luger holster was initially formed the wet leather is draped over a skeleton mold and quickly dried. It will maintain this form BECAUSE of the fibers having swelled when wet but now when dried have shrunken into one another and forms a tight bond. This bond/form as we all know is still with us 80-120 years later. If the form is taken care of, not squashed out of shape or otherwise abused it stays the way it was intended. The worst malady this shape/bond/form can meet is slippery oil. It PENETRATES and surrounds once tight fibers and allows them to slip & slide. This travesty is only one of many problems that WILL take place with the use of Ballistol or Neats Foot oil or ANY OIL put on a vintage static holster.



Once any type of oil is applied to a vintage static holster the damage is done and irreversible. It cannot be removed. Like a sponge, leather will soak up an amazing amount of oil but unlike a sponge you cannot just wring it out. Another type of damage after oil application is the leather now cannot absorb and expel air & moisture. Oil also attracts dirt, debris and Ballistol expressly stated that their special oil is edible! Well if I can eat it, so can the microbes.



I state my case as gently as possible as everyone here I consider a friend. I don't try to change your minds, they are made up already, but to get other collectors to think about care, preservation and the subject at hand, the eradication of mold. My favorite is heat. unlike oil, it can be applied and then removed. Just as alcohol or acetone is benign, applied then removed. Even water cannot be applied & removed..it changes form, moves color, shrinks & expands. IT is NOT benign to vegetable tanned leather.



I have seen way TOO many holsters damaged by oil to remain silent. The worst ones get that way by the overuse of oil on a pistol which then wicks off the pistol onto holster muzzles, mag pouch bottoms or wherever, hardening to a black brittle scab that when probed, crumbles, similar to a burnt pastry crust.
Jerry,

Very interesting and informative summary from a true expert on the topic.

Thank you for it!

You are very right in saying that Armies have very different priorities than collectors some 75 to 100 years later.

Sieger.
Sieger is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to Sieger for your post:
Unread 05-02-2020, 10:23 AM   #23
Sergio Natali
User
 
Sergio Natali's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy
Posts: 2,646
Thanks: 1,082
Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by

[B
... you are a young man..[/B]. It may be that the damage you are inflicting will not even show up in your lifetime. [/I][/FONT]
penetrating oil.

We all make choices. I try to make informed choices. Each to their own.
Hi Jerry

You kindly called me "a young man" only because from my avatar tiny picture you can't see the wrinkles on my face!

This is what happened when I was born:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yK2BRRQ1O4


All the best Jerry!
__________________
"Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.
Sergio Natali is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 3 members says Thank You to Sergio Natali for your post:
Unread 06-15-2020, 12:58 PM   #24
4 Scale
User
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 544
Thanks: 194
Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts
Default

I don't own any leather holsters and do not know anything about leather care. However I appreciate Jerry's frustration with some of the anecdotal advice which he says is harmful.

I am not an expert on wood preservation but know more than the average bear. I continually see anecdotal advice in these forums re: Luger grips that I know for a certainty is harmful/contrary to museum best practices. My reaction when I read it is similar to Jerry's.

I would guess that leather and wood are similar in that they are tough and durable. That is why they were used. That they can survive mistreatment is not evidence that the mistreatment is good.
4 Scale is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 2 members says Thank You to 4 Scale for your post:
Unread 06-29-2020, 05:00 PM   #25
dfjaws
New User
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

As a new collector I just wanted to say thanks to Jerry for posting this valuable information. I know a lot of this information is out there already but it can be tough to sift through everything to find what I'm looking for, especially for someone new to this kind of collecting. This has also given me some confidence to take a look at my holsters and properly conserve them rather than just leave them alone or try to clean them with an oil based product. Thanks again!
dfjaws is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to dfjaws for your post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - 2023, Lugerforum.com