How to fix a sloppy safety?

[Olle]

Got a 1900 with a sloppy safety, and I have been eyeballing it trying to determine what to do with it. I would think that the lever should be bent slightly, but I don't know how that would affect the engagement with the grip safety. It appears like somebody has already been tinkering with it, so I don't want to push my luck by bending it back and forth "just to see if it works". With my luck, it would promptly break in two.

Any ideas? Heat and bend the lever a bit, then reharden and temper?

[ithacaartist]

Olle,

I think you'll be able to get away with a little manipulation of the lever. Moving the outer end of the lever toward the frame will make its action with the detentes more positive. Just go a little at a time, in a controlled manner. But first check to see whether the looseness might be remedied by a bigger retaining pin.

[Edward Tinker]

I have heard that, that is the solution, but everytime I bend anything, it breaks

[cirelaw]

What causes the problem in to first place that I can avoid??

[Olle]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Olle,

I think you'll be able to get away with a little manipulation of the lever. Moving the outer end of the lever toward the frame will make its action with the detentes more positive. Just go a little at a time, in a controlled manner.

There are two problems with that. First: This would push the other end of it against the grip safety, and may interfere with the function. Second: I know I'll break the damn thing...

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

But first check to see whether the looseness might be remedied by a bigger retaining pin.

That would be a pretty clever solution. It seems to have the right bend to it, but is feels kinda loose in the pivot hole. I guess I could turn a pin with a slightly larger diameter right where it holds the safety. It might even help to shim the safety lever a bit to tighten it up against the pin.

[ithacaartist]

Olle,

It might be possible to save time at the lathe. IIRC, the D of the pin is around 0.100", give or take a couple of thousandths. A bit of the shank of a wire-gauge numbered drill did the trick for one of mine. I forget which number, but in that range, the sizes differ by 0.001 or 0.002".

[DonVoigt]

Ollie,
Is it a "shooter" or safe queen?

Safe queen- I'd take the safety lever out and through a couple burs on the rotating section or the safety- the "axle", or shim it at the bottom of the hole as you mention.

On a shooter, bend the exposed part of the lever-the thin part- by holding at the axle and bending the thin, springy part only. For a more permanent fix, heating-quench-temper would be better, but you don't know how hot to heat, what to quench in, or what temp to draw to.

Then it could be the little "nub" is completely worn away that stops in each of the recesses, then another fix is in order!

[Olle]

I think I got it fixed... The nub is worn and the stop holes in the frame are also worn, so it still doesn't snap in 100% in the off safe position but at least it won't flop around now.

There wasn't much room for shims or modified pins, everything actually seemed to fit well so I determined that bending the lever was the appropriate way to do it. I'm scared to death bending stuff like this, so I did it in a very controlled manner by clamping the shaft in a vise with the lever about 1/16" above the jaws, and then I put a center punch under the lever as a fulcrum. When doing it like this I can only bend it until it hits the vise, so there's no risk of bending it too far. I did that a few times, test fitted in between, and finally got it to work quite well.

The pin is tight in the lever but pretty loose in the hole, so I'll check my drill bits and see if I can find one that's slightly oversized. I have a cheap letter/number set that I bought for this purpose ($30 for all the pins you could possibly need... ), so it's just a matter of finding the correct one.

[John Sabato]

If the nub was worn you could build it up a little with a small weld and then polish it down so it moves smoothly...

No welder? I can be pretty creative with a car battery and a piece of wire coat hanger momentarily touching the grounded safety lever with the end of the coat hanger that is connected to the positive terminal to the nub spot would leave some of the coat hanger permanently attached to the lever...

but do that at your own risk. Be sure to wear safety glasses and close your eyes just as you touch the spot, because you will experience what is called a BWF (BLINDING WHITE FLASH) when it touches!

[Eugen]

Originally Posted by John Sabato

If the nub was worn you could build it up a little with a small weld and then polish it down so it moves smoothly...

No welder? I can be pretty creative with a car battery and a piece of wire coat hanger !

Golly, John, you are very creative!
That is one of the best "gitter done", DIY, Bubba fixes that I have heard in a long time. Regretfully I have done that procedure (by accident ) more times that I care to remember. LOL

[DonVoigt]

It might work, the "welding" that is, or it might burn a hole in the piece if you move with your eyes closed!

I'd at least invest in a pair of welding goggles.

[Olle]

Originally Posted by John Sabato

If the nub was worn you could build it up a little with a small weld and then polish it down so it moves smoothly...

No welder? I can be pretty creative with a car battery and a piece of wire coat hanger momentarily touching the grounded safety lever with the end of the coat hanger that is connected to the positive terminal to the nub spot would leave some of the coat hanger permanently attached to the lever...

but do that at your own risk. Be sure to wear safety glasses and close your eyes just as you touch the spot, because you will experience what is called a BWF (BLINDING WHITE FLASH) when it touches!

John,

The contrast between the Luger's finely crafted parts and the description of your method is... well, stark.

I actually had another idea yesterday: It would be fairly easy to mill the nub off, drill a hole and then loctite a new nub in place. If you want to get fancy, you could even make it spring loaded, like on the Erma LA-22. It would probably take carbide tools to do this, but I figure it would be a pretty elegant solution. I might actually try this on a spare safety lever and see how it works.

[John Sabato]

Originally Posted by Olle

I actually had another idea yesterday: It would be fairly easy to mill the nub off, drill a hole and then loctite a new nub in place. If you want to get fancy, you could even make it spring loaded, like on the Erma LA-22. It would probably take carbide tools to do this, but I figure it would be a pretty elegant solution. I might actually try this on a spare safety lever and see how it works.

Your idea gave me another "more elegant" idea. Drill your blind hold where the nub used to be and either peen or Loctite an appropriately sized ball bearing into the hole with enough sticking out to perform the job of the original nub.

[Eugen]

Originally Posted by John Sabato

Your idea gave me another "more elegant" idea. Drill your blind hold where the nub used to be and either peen or Loctite an appropriately sized ball bearing into the hole with enough sticking out to perform the job of the original nub.

Give that man a cigar! John, now that is even a better idea than the first one. That first one may have needed a legal disclaimer like; "children don't try this at home". LOL

In all seriousness the blind hole with a small ball solution is a winner from my perspective.

[Olle]

Originally Posted by John Sabato

Your idea gave me another "more elegant" idea. Drill your blind hold where the nub used to be and either peen or Loctite an appropriately sized ball bearing into the hole with enough sticking out to perform the job of the original nub.

That's kinda the way it's done on the LA-22, but in an über elegant way: It has a spring loaded ball that is staked in place so it can't pop out. The scale of this contraption would make it a pretty difficult retrofit, but it would be the Cadillac of safety levers when it's done.

[dnickels]

I would just build up the little bump on the back of the safety with a bit of JB Weld It works good for minor fixes like that. I used it to fill two rather large, crude, holes drilled through the frame of my Tokarev TT-33

[ithacaartist]

If the nub is worn down, run--don't walk--to a professional welder who is virtuoso with the TIG. This process will be most precise (except, perhaps, for micro-welding) in depositing as much or as little material where it is desired, and it will be more durable than a foreign substance such as J B Weld.

The sprung ball method, ala Erma, would be most elegant. Use a machinist with an EDM machine to create the hole with no worries about temper or finish of the piece. The early, mostly Zamak Erma .22s use a 3mm ball bearing and an appropriately-sized spring. I have not seen any that were actually staked, however, which I'd not recommend on a cast Zamak part, anyway. It is basically retained by the minimal gap between the back end of the lever and the side of the ear of the frame. If the hole and the lever's shaft are considerably worn, sometimes enough play is present for the lever to tilt up and away from the frame, which allow the ball to escape. You can tell the ones on G.B. that have lost their balls--the end of the spring makes messy gouges in the finish if the gun is not repaired immediately.

[Olle]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

If the nub is worn down, run--don't walk--to a professional welder who is virtuoso with the TIG. This process will be most precise (except, perhaps, for micro-welding) in depositing as much or as little material where it is desired, and it will be more durable than a foreign substance such as J B Weld.

The sprung ball method, ala Erma, would be most elegant. Use a machinist with an EDM machine to create the hole with no worries about temper or finish of the piece. The early, mostly Zamak Erma .22s use a 3mm ball bearing and an appropriately-sized spring. I have not seen any that were actually staked, however, which I'd not recommend on a cast Zamak part, anyway. It is basically retained by the minimal gap between the back end of the lever and the side of the ear of the frame. If the hole and the lever's shaft are considerably worn, sometimes enough play is present for the lever to tilt up and away from the frame, which allow the ball to escape. You can tell the ones on G.B. that have lost their balls--the end of the spring makes messy gouges in the finish if the gun is not repaired immediately.

Interesting... I can see that a loose ball in combination with flimsy zinc can create the problems you're talking about, even the ball itself is enough to gouge the frame like you describe.

The safety lever on mine is a new replacement (from Bob's gun parts, IIRC) and it's made of steel with a staked detent ball. The old one was made of zinc, but the upper part had broke off so I don't know how the ball arrangement was done on it.