A couple of quick bbl pix - NEW & IMPROVED.

Zorba · 08-12-2013, 12:43 AM

NEW PIX LOWER DOWN IN THREAD.

Someone asked to see the witness mark on my pistol in the grip thread. I snapped this quickie - number matches, etc - but it looks to me like the witness mark is "off" slightly. If this pic isn't good enough - I'll have to drag out the tripod, closeup filters, and lights again...

Also, a bore pic.

mrerick · 08-12-2013, 10:34 AM

Can't see detail, but yes - the barrel has been off the pistol.

Take your pictures using a digital camera on a tripod. Set it for closeups and don't use flash. Take them outdoors in shaded, indirect sunlight.

Sometimes the shiny nature of metal fools the autofocus of cameras, so you end up trying several times before getting a good exposure that is sharp and detailed.

Marc

Zorba · 08-12-2013, 01:35 PM

Like I said, I'll have to drag the tripod, closeup filters, softbox, lights, all that stuff out.

I wonder why the barrel was removed?

Edward Tinker · 08-12-2013, 02:15 PM

at times it is a lie, barrel was not removed, that said, yours was (too much movement).

hard to say why its been changed, since the sn is the same? I am guessing that the proof marks are correct, i.e. eagle N's matching eagle N's or nazi proof eagle matching nazi proof eagle.

Ed

Zorba · 08-12-2013, 02:23 PM

I'm going to re-confirm the proofs, stand by...

Ron Wood · 08-12-2013, 02:40 PM

The barrel may not have been completely removed. Someone in the past may have adjusted the sights by rotating the barrel to correct point of aim. This would normally be an armorer or gunsmith operation. Can't say for sure for your gun, but it is a possibility.

Zorba · 08-12-2013, 03:22 PM

Its becoming an interesting question for sure!

Zorba · 08-12-2013, 11:44 PM

New pix.

First, the witness mark and serial number. Ignore the white balance issue, in person the serial number shows a faint halo.

Zorba · 08-12-2013, 11:45 PM

Second, the proof marks:

Zorba · 08-12-2013, 11:46 PM

Thirdly, another proof on the barrel in an odd (???) location:

alanint · 08-13-2013, 06:24 AM

Under this lighting the witness mark offset does not look any worse than some other guns I've examined.

I think Ron is right and that this was tweeked to get the POA dead on.

lugerholsterrepair · 08-13-2013, 04:32 PM

I think Ron is right and that this was tweeked to get the POA dead on. Guys I have to wonder about that theory! Any shooter is not likely to grab onto a Luger barrel and twist it a 16th of an inch to adjust the sights! Just doesn't seem likely that the average guy would have the knowledge to do this..without marking the barrel. Just as likely bullet throw in the lands and grooves twisted it? Just thinking out loud...

Barrel looks sweet!

G.T. · 08-13-2013, 04:47 PM

For whatever reason, I don't yet know???... But I can tell you this much, if you line the marks up perfectly, the front sight base will be canted...also, I think in the vast majority of cases, the mark on the receiver only, is perfectly centered and true... As for the barrel marks, some are perfectly aligned, and some are off... I think that the barrel mark was just a reference for correct barrel torque... I also believed, during early production assembly, it could have been assembled and then dismantled for some unknown reason, and reassembled, and then, on some, remarked??... Sight alignment, is a whole nother step! These guys were Germans, they though nothing of adding 5 extra steps to a one step process??

.. Best to all, til...lat'r....GT

Ron Wood · 08-13-2013, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

Any shooter is not likely to grab onto a Luger barrel and twist it a 16th of an inch to adjust the sights! Just doesn't seem likely that the average guy would have the knowledge to do this..

That is why I said it would be a gunsmith or armorer operation.

lugerholsterrepair · 08-13-2013, 06:09 PM

Ron, Yeah..BUT! If this pistol came to a gunsmith or armorer I am wondering if this would be a legitimate approach to adjusting the sights? Lugers are not know nor were they intended to be target pistols..how much adjustment would it make to twist the barrel out of spec/headspace? A cant/slant to the front sight, seems like adjusting left or right could be accomplished by pushing the sight over in the dovetail and what else could you want? Nothing you can do about up or down? Again..just thinking out loud.

Ron Wood · 08-13-2013, 08:10 PM

Good thinking...I'll be quiet now

lugerholsterrepair · 08-13-2013, 08:14 PM

Ron, Your theory makes at least as much sense as anything else..Like I said..just kicking it around to see what pops up. It could very well be correct for all I know..There are many if not all that know more about this than I ever will.

kzullick · 08-13-2013, 08:37 PM

Nothing ever assembled, disassembled and reassembled will ever go back together 100% exactly as the original assembly.

alvin · 08-14-2013, 08:19 AM

The theory of turning barrel for sight adjustment has one hole -- the front sight on Luger is not fixed, a new sight blade can be put on and adjusted by moving it little bit to the left or to the right, then add a alignment mark there. For sight adjusting purpose, why didn't people doing that, that's easier.... Of course, the barrel can be turned for that purpose, but at least, if it's done by German, they should have a standard procedure on sight adjustment..... turning the barrel, or moving the sight blade?

hansfischer007 · 08-14-2013, 09:30 AM

How True is this statement....and how many times has my wife accused me of the same thing.....by the way...My Family is German from the Rheinland Pfalz area......but I love this statement that was posted...

"These guys were Germans, they though nothing of adding 5 extra steps to a one step process?? .. Best to all, til...lat'r....GT"

This really makes me smile because it is so true...

Danke.....Hans Fischer

08-12-2013, 12:43 AM	#1
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 952 Thanks: 777 Thanked 527 Times in 290 Posts	A couple of quick bbl pix - NEW & IMPROVED. NEW PIX LOWER DOWN IN THREAD. Someone asked to see the witness mark on my pistol in the grip thread. I snapped this quickie - number matches, etc - but it looks to me like the witness mark is "off" slightly. If this pic isn't good enough - I'll have to drag out the tripod, closeup filters, and lights again... Also, a bore pic. Attached Thumbnails

08-12-2013, 10:34 AM	#2
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,907 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts	Can't see detail, but yes - the barrel has been off the pistol. Take your pictures using a digital camera on a tripod. Set it for closeups and don't use flash. Take them outdoors in shaded, indirect sunlight. Sometimes the shiny nature of metal fools the autofocus of cameras, so you end up trying several times before getting a good exposure that is sharp and detailed. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

08-12-2013, 02:15 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	at times it is a lie, barrel was not removed, that said, yours was (too much movement). hard to say why its been changed, since the sn is the same? I am guessing that the proof marks are correct, i.e. eagle N's matching eagle N's or nazi proof eagle matching nazi proof eagle. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-12-2013, 02:40 PM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,005 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 5,139 Times in 1,689 Posts	The barrel may not have been completely removed. Someone in the past may have adjusted the sights by rotating the barrel to correct point of aim. This would normally be an armorer or gunsmith operation. Can't say for sure for your gun, but it is a possibility. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-12-2013, 11:44 PM	#8
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 952 Thanks: 777 Thanked 527 Times in 290 Posts	New pix. First, the witness mark and serial number. Ignore the white balance issue, in person the serial number shows a faint halo. Attached Thumbnails

08-12-2013, 01:35 PM	#3
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 952 Thanks: 777 Thanked 527 Times in 290 Posts	Like I said, I'll have to drag the tripod, closeup filters, softbox, lights, all that stuff out. I wonder why the barrel was removed?

08-12-2013, 02:23 PM	#5
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 952 Thanks: 777 Thanked 527 Times in 290 Posts	I'm going to re-confirm the proofs, stand by...

08-12-2013, 03:22 PM	#7
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 952 Thanks: 777 Thanked 527 Times in 290 Posts	Its becoming an interesting question for sure!

08-12-2013, 11:45 PM	#9
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 952 Thanks: 777 Thanked 527 Times in 290 Posts	Second, the proof marks: Attached Thumbnails

08-12-2013, 11:46 PM	#10
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 952 Thanks: 777 Thanked 527 Times in 290 Posts	Thirdly, another proof on the barrel in an odd (???) location: Attached Thumbnails

08-13-2013, 06:24 AM	#11
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Under this lighting the witness mark offset does not look any worse than some other guns I've examined. I think Ron is right and that this was tweeked to get the POA dead on.

08-13-2013, 04:32 PM	#12
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,766 Thanks: 4,883 Thanked 3,121 Times in 1,432 Posts	I think Ron is right and that this was tweeked to get the POA dead on. Guys I have to wonder about that theory! Any shooter is not likely to grab onto a Luger barrel and twist it a 16th of an inch to adjust the sights! Just doesn't seem likely that the average guy would have the knowledge to do this..without marking the barrel. Just as likely bullet throw in the lands and grooves twisted it? Just thinking out loud... Barrel looks sweet! __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-13-2013, 04:47 PM	#13
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,502 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,637 Times in 1,001 Posts	I think factory done?? For whatever reason, I don't yet know???... But I can tell you this much, if you line the marks up perfectly, the front sight base will be canted...also, I think in the vast majority of cases, the mark on the receiver only, is perfectly centered and true... As for the barrel marks, some are perfectly aligned, and some are off... I think that the barrel mark was just a reference for correct barrel torque... I also believed, during early production assembly, it could have been assembled and then dismantled for some unknown reason, and reassembled, and then, on some, remarked??... Sight alignment, is a whole nother step! These guys were Germans, they though nothing of adding 5 extra steps to a one step process?? .. Best to all, til...lat'r....GT

08-13-2013, 06:09 PM	#15
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,766 Thanks: 4,883 Thanked 3,121 Times in 1,432 Posts	Ron, Yeah..BUT! If this pistol came to a gunsmith or armorer I am wondering if this would be a legitimate approach to adjusting the sights? Lugers are not know nor were they intended to be target pistols..how much adjustment would it make to twist the barrel out of spec/headspace? A cant/slant to the front sight, seems like adjusting left or right could be accomplished by pushing the sight over in the dovetail and what else could you want? Nothing you can do about up or down? Again..just thinking out loud. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-13-2013, 08:10 PM	#16
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,005 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 5,139 Times in 1,689 Posts	Good thinking...I'll be quiet now __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-13-2013, 08:14 PM	#17
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,766 Thanks: 4,883 Thanked 3,121 Times in 1,432 Posts	Ron, Your theory makes at least as much sense as anything else..Like I said..just kicking it around to see what pops up. It could very well be correct for all I know..There are many if not all that know more about this than I ever will. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-13-2013, 08:37 PM	#18
kzullick Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: East Berwick, Pennsylvania Posts: 227 Thanks: 614 Thanked 100 Times in 81 Posts	Nothing ever assembled, disassembled and reassembled will ever go back together 100% exactly as the original assembly.

08-14-2013, 08:19 AM	#19
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	The theory of turning barrel for sight adjustment has one hole -- the front sight on Luger is not fixed, a new sight blade can be put on and adjusted by moving it little bit to the left or to the right, then add a alignment mark there. For sight adjusting purpose, why didn't people doing that, that's easier.... Of course, the barrel can be turned for that purpose, but at least, if it's done by German, they should have a standard procedure on sight adjustment..... turning the barrel, or moving the sight blade?

08-14-2013, 09:30 AM	#20
hansfischer007 User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Sunny Tennessee Posts: 233 Thanks: 509 Thanked 96 Times in 48 Posts	German Engineering How True is this statement....and how many times has my wife accused me of the same thing.....by the way...My Family is German from the Rheinland Pfalz area......but I love this statement that was posted... "These guys were Germans, they though nothing of adding 5 extra steps to a one step process?? .. Best to all, til...lat'r....GT" This really makes me smile because it is so true... Danke.....Hans Fischer