Help with 1917 Erfurt Luger.

XxAmilcaRxX · 07-07-2013, 09:23 PM

Hi, how are you guys?
A friend of mine have this 1917 Erfurt Luger. And maybe i`m gonna bought this Luger from him.
I would like your opinions on this Luger. Is everything ok with this one?
It is really a Military 1917 Erfurt Luger?
And like how much money will cost this Luger now?
Thanks a lot!

Amilcar.

DavidJayUden · 07-07-2013, 10:12 PM

I can't tell you much from the photos, but it would appear to have been reblued, which will hurt its collector value.
In the USA we would call this a shooter grade gun because of the re-finish job, and such a gun would sell for somewhere between $750 and $1000.
Hope that this helps, and more and clearer pictures may get you more information.
dju

alanint · 07-07-2013, 11:15 PM

I agree with David. This gun has been reblued and has had odd things done to it;
- The takedown lever spring appears to be some kind of tiny roll pin?
- The middle toggle with the Erfurt Crown appears to have been heat treated, giving that exagerated plumb color.
- The back of the final toggle link has been tightly held in a vice at some point, (note the little vice tooth indentations along each side).

A nice pistol, but not a collector grade and worth about what David suggested.

mrerick · 07-08-2013, 02:25 PM

Hi,

The finish appearance may be an artifact of flash photography, including the color of the toggle.

Amilcar, what geography are you located in. This makes a great difference in valuation.

You really do have a 1917 manufactured Erfurt military Luger pistol.

All the numbers visible so far in your pictures are matching.

The roll pin in place of the retention spring under the take down toggle is incorrect. Replacement springs are available.

It does look like it has been dropped, and the rear of the toggle train may have received some rough (probably amateur) work. These things do impact the value.

Take pictures again, but do it outside in shaded natural sunlight. Try to get photos of the serial number stamped at the base of the barrel, and see if light "halos" surround the numeric digits.

Welcome to the forum!

Marc

John Sabato · 07-08-2013, 04:02 PM

The color of the toggle is indicative of bluing solution that was not up to the proper temperature... The toggle may not have been blued at the same time as the rest of the gun.

You see a lot of the plumb color on late wartime manufacture P.38's as well... I concur that the gun is a refinish... shooter grade.

XxAmilcaRxX · 07-08-2013, 11:07 PM

Hello, how are you guys?
I live in Mexico City. And i´m a WW1 and WW2 Militaria Collector. I always loved the old and antiques guns. But Mexico is an anti-gun Country and is really hard and dangerous to get Guns here.
I start to collect old guns 2 years ago. And i know that only a few Commercial Lugers appears in one year. And they go for 700$ to 1800$.
I know that the Military Lugers in Mexico are really hard to find. This is the first Military Luger that i see in the last 2 years.
I notice that the gun is reblued but thanks a lot to show me the other details of the gun.
If i were in the USA i will probably pass of this one. And i will wait to find a better one.
I prefer to pay more money for a better gun.
But like i´m in Mexico i think that i should bought this gun. But in a fair price of course.
The guy is asking 1400$ for the gun, he told me that examples like this one goes for 1800$ in the USA. xD.
So now i think that i should offer him 600$ to 1000$. But not more than 1000$ right?
Thanks for letting me know the odd things in this one. So i will tell him all the problems with this one and let´s see if i can get it for 600-1000$.
I will ask him better pictures of the Luger and i will post them here for your opinions.
I really appreciate your help

.
Thanks a lot!

Amilcar.

DavidJayUden · 07-08-2013, 11:42 PM

Amilcar:
Prices that we expect to pay in the US may not be the same prices that are paid in other countries, so you'll just have to do your best to get it for a reasonable price.
It is nice to hear from someone from Mexico, and sometime please tell us what you have to do in order to own a Luger pistol in Mexico.
And welcome to the forum.
david

alanint · 07-09-2013, 06:57 AM

As a general rule, the population in Mexico is prohibited from owning "military" calibers, so 9mm and 45ACP are completely prohibited unless you have a "collector's License", which require money and influence to obtain.

Many Lugers gravitated to Mexico since the early 1900s. Most today are in Museums or private collections. You will occasionaly see a security guard still sporting one, or are offered one in the "thieve's markets", such as Tepito, but this has become rare.

Good luck with your purchase!! You can always upgrade later if you find a better gun.

XxAmilcaRxX · 08-01-2013, 07:07 PM

Hello, how are you guys?
Thanks a lot for your help!
My friend just send me these photos of the Luger. What do you think?
"alanint" nice to see that you know some of the laws about fire guns in Mexico.
My country is an anti guns Country. The Government want that we the people believe that the guns are bad and are just for bad people (Criminals). And right now almost all the mexicans believe that.
Almost all don`t even know that they have the right to have 1 gun to protect their home.
The laws about Fire guns in Mexico are so weird and there is many (holes) in the law. It seems that our Government don`t care about the guns laws they just want to destroy all the guns.
Yeah, in each "county" you can take your gun and give it to them and they will give you some money (100-500$) or Ipads, Lap Tops etc. Then they destroy all the guns (Even the antique guns).
And of course with that the Government say that our Country will be much safe without any guns.
In Mexico you can have just 1 pistol or revolver to protect your home. And just inside your home. No one can have a gun in the Streets.
And if you are a shooter or hunter (Club Member) you can have 1 pistol and 9 rifles or shotguns.
We don`t have gun shops. If you want to bought a gun you have to go to the SEDENA and bought it from the Army. And of course they just have new guns.
You can also bought guns from normal people and then you go to SEDENA and make the paperwork.
Well here are the Photos;

lugersrkewl · 08-01-2013, 08:03 PM

Id do 750 tops on it....

07-07-2013, 09:23 PM	#1
XxAmilcaRxX New User Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Help with 1917 Erfurt Luger. Hi, how are you guys? A friend of mine have this 1917 Erfurt Luger. And maybe i`m gonna bought this Luger from him. I would like your opinions on this Luger. Is everything ok with this one? It is really a Military 1917 Erfurt Luger? And like how much money will cost this Luger now? Thanks a lot! Amilcar.

07-08-2013, 02:25 PM	#4
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,907 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts	Hi, The finish appearance may be an artifact of flash photography, including the color of the toggle. Amilcar, what geography are you located in. This makes a great difference in valuation. You really do have a 1917 manufactured Erfurt military Luger pistol. All the numbers visible so far in your pictures are matching. The roll pin in place of the retention spring under the take down toggle is incorrect. Replacement springs are available. It does look like it has been dropped, and the rear of the toggle train may have received some rough (probably amateur) work. These things do impact the value. Take pictures again, but do it outside in shaded natural sunlight. Try to get photos of the serial number stamped at the base of the barrel, and see if light "halos" surround the numeric digits. Welcome to the forum! Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

07-08-2013, 04:02 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	The color of the toggle is indicative of bluing solution that was not up to the proper temperature... The toggle may not have been blued at the same time as the rest of the gun. You see a lot of the plumb color on late wartime manufacture P.38's as well... I concur that the gun is a refinish... shooter grade. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-07-2013, 10:12 PM	#2
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I can't tell you much from the photos, but it would appear to have been reblued, which will hurt its collector value. In the USA we would call this a shooter grade gun because of the re-finish job, and such a gun would sell for somewhere between $750 and $1000. Hope that this helps, and more and clearer pictures may get you more information. dju

07-07-2013, 11:15 PM	#3
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	I agree with David. This gun has been reblued and has had odd things done to it; - The takedown lever spring appears to be some kind of tiny roll pin? - The middle toggle with the Erfurt Crown appears to have been heat treated, giving that exagerated plumb color. - The back of the final toggle link has been tightly held in a vice at some point, (note the little vice tooth indentations along each side). A nice pistol, but not a collector grade and worth about what David suggested.

07-08-2013, 11:07 PM	#6
XxAmilcaRxX New User Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello, how are you guys? I live in Mexico City. And i´m a WW1 and WW2 Militaria Collector. I always loved the old and antiques guns. But Mexico is an anti-gun Country and is really hard and dangerous to get Guns here. I start to collect old guns 2 years ago. And i know that only a few Commercial Lugers appears in one year. And they go for 700$ to 1800$. I know that the Military Lugers in Mexico are really hard to find. This is the first Military Luger that i see in the last 2 years. I notice that the gun is reblued but thanks a lot to show me the other details of the gun. If i were in the USA i will probably pass of this one. And i will wait to find a better one. I prefer to pay more money for a better gun. But like i´m in Mexico i think that i should bought this gun. But in a fair price of course. The guy is asking 1400$ for the gun, he told me that examples like this one goes for 1800$ in the USA. xD. So now i think that i should offer him 600$ to 1000$. But not more than 1000$ right? Thanks for letting me know the odd things in this one. So i will tell him all the problems with this one and let´s see if i can get it for 600-1000$. I will ask him better pictures of the Luger and i will post them here for your opinions. I really appreciate your help . Thanks a lot! Amilcar.

07-08-2013, 11:42 PM	#7
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Amilcar: Prices that we expect to pay in the US may not be the same prices that are paid in other countries, so you'll just have to do your best to get it for a reasonable price. It is nice to hear from someone from Mexico, and sometime please tell us what you have to do in order to own a Luger pistol in Mexico. And welcome to the forum. david

07-09-2013, 06:57 AM	#8
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	As a general rule, the population in Mexico is prohibited from owning "military" calibers, so 9mm and 45ACP are completely prohibited unless you have a "collector's License", which require money and influence to obtain. Many Lugers gravitated to Mexico since the early 1900s. Most today are in Museums or private collections. You will occasionaly see a security guard still sporting one, or are offered one in the "thieve's markets", such as Tepito, but this has become rare. Good luck with your purchase!! You can always upgrade later if you find a better gun.

08-01-2013, 07:07 PM	#9
XxAmilcaRxX New User Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello, how are you guys? Thanks a lot for your help! My friend just send me these photos of the Luger. What do you think? "alanint" nice to see that you know some of the laws about fire guns in Mexico. My country is an anti guns Country. The Government want that we the people believe that the guns are bad and are just for bad people (Criminals). And right now almost all the mexicans believe that. Almost all don`t even know that they have the right to have 1 gun to protect their home. The laws about Fire guns in Mexico are so weird and there is many (holes) in the law. It seems that our Government don`t care about the guns laws they just want to destroy all the guns. Yeah, in each "county" you can take your gun and give it to them and they will give you some money (100-500$) or Ipads, Lap Tops etc. Then they destroy all the guns (Even the antique guns). And of course with that the Government say that our Country will be much safe without any guns. In Mexico you can have just 1 pistol or revolver to protect your home. And just inside your home. No one can have a gun in the Streets. And if you are a shooter or hunter (Club Member) you can have 1 pistol and 9 rifles or shotguns. We don`t have gun shops. If you want to bought a gun you have to go to the SEDENA and bought it from the Army. And of course they just have new guns. You can also bought guns from normal people and then you go to SEDENA and make the paperwork. Well here are the Photos;

08-01-2013, 08:03 PM	#10
lugersrkewl Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ussr Posts: 425 Thanks: 198 Thanked 75 Times in 58 Posts	Id do 750 tops on it....