30 Luger Cartridge Conversion

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Patronen

Here is a pic of a homemade case tumbler

I don't know what a spin test is but I see you have another antique drill motor!!!

I made up the 30 Mauser brass for my Serbian M57, which I haven't shot yet. I had some commercial brass left over so I made some 7.65 Luger for my Star BM.

30 Luger at top, 30 Mauser at bottom, two for comparison in middle.

[Patronen]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I don't know what a spin test is

The spin test is slang pertaining to the CZ52 and usually surplus 7.62 ammo. The chamber is tight on the CZ52 and some of the cases are sometimes too wide and too long to properly seat. So some people that shoot surplus in a CZ52 will pull out the barrel and take each cartridge to see if it fits before using if not there can be stoppages at the range and it's a PITA. I gave up shooting surplus in the CZ52 for 2 reasons, the one above mentioned and the variaing powder charges that can happen in surplus. When forming the .223 case into 7.62Tok I had the barrel next to the reloading bench to make sure the length of the case with seted bullet would drop in, after about 25 rounds and a few failures in some hours I felt buying Selior and Belliot 7.62Tok to shoot and reload or Starline cases may be the better way to go.
Case annealing is something I have not done, I don't shoot heavy charges and since alot of the brass was obtained next to nothing I feel a case that splits can go into the trash.
As Rick W has said there is quite a few steps to turn for example .270 into .308 using regular dies it can be done if you turn it first into another caliber or sometimes 2 on your way down, fun for the challenge to say you did it but not at all practical for quantity in my opinion when using a simple single stage press.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Rick W.

But I would not form 223 to 30 Luger unless that is all I had or just wanted to do it for fun.

Originally Posted by Patronen

...fun for the challenge to say you did it but not at all practical for quantity in my opinion when using a simple single stage press.

There was a time in the early '70's when you could not find 7.63 Mauser or 7.65 Luger brass, loaded ammunition, or even old surplus anywhere...making it was the only way to shoot an old firearm...I got into cartridge conversion/wildcats when I had my first 45 Colt Auto and wanted to shoot the 38-45 Clerke out of it. That led me into chamber reaming and case forming. I also had a Chinese rifle that shot 7.62 x 39 and there was no ammo available for that either. * But .223/5.56mm cases were all over the place, you couldn't walk 10 feet on the range without stepping on them. So that got used to make just about everything. I still find once-fired .223 brass at the local range (along with police 9mm). Hey - If it's free, it's for me!

The spin test is slang pertaining to the CZ52 and usually surplus 7.62 ammo. The chamber is tight on the CZ52 and some of the cases are sometimes too wide and too long to properly seat...

I have a 7.63 Mauser/7.62 Tokarev chamber reamer if you want to see if that chamber will open up a bit...

Originally Posted by Rick W.

I probably loose about 85 percent of my Luger brass at the local indoor range...

I lose one out of five expended cases in our indoor range...No idea where those 5 - 10 cases go...I sweep diligently, check corners, under benches, even get a chair and check the light fixtures...Nothing...

I mentioned it to the club president some time back and they put up screens between stations to keep the brass close to you...


* There was a gunsmith who had two boxes [20 rds each] of some Finnish 7.62 x 39 left from some exotic rifle he built...I bought them, but the price was exorbitant...And I couldn't find any more...

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Patronen

The chamber is tight on the CZ52 and some of the cases are sometimes too wide and too long to properly seat...When forming the .223 case into 7.62Tok I had the barrel next to the reloading bench to make sure the length of the case with seted bullet would drop in...

I find that surprising, as the .223 case is dimensionally smaller in diameter than the 7.62 Tokarev. It should drop in with a bit to spare, and still fire-form to fit that particular barrel...

[Patronen]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I find that surprising, as the .223 case is dimensionally smaller in diameter than the 7.62 Tokarev. It should drop in with a bit to spare, and still fire-form to fit that particular barrel...

The surplus 7.62 would give problems with variances of being to long and to wide at times. Alot of the surplus 7.62 Tok packed in those 70 quantity boxes were probably destined originaly for PPSH41/43 duty and would function fine and from what I hear through the Tokarev pistols too. But I have noticed with the CZ52 the tolerances are tighter. When forming the .223 into 7.62 I wanted to be sure each cartridge/bullet seating length was going to drop in the barrel. I did not want to make up a bunch that would not function

[sheepherder]

Since i had a bunch of 30 Mauser cases ready to load (and some Red Dot!), I decided to make up some 84/85gr FMJ bullets, starting with 110gr Carbine bullets. I drilled them out with a 7/32" drill bit in my home made fixture to 84/85gr...



Much fun!

[rhuff]

I bet that those "hollow based" Carbine bullets will obturate like gangbusters when fired. I believe that what is being called the spin test is the same as what many call the "plunk test".

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by rhuff

I bet that those "hollow based" Carbine bullets will obturate like gangbusters when fired.

Nope. They fire out with no problem and leave nice small round holes in targets.

I been making & shooting these for 40 years.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Patronen

When forming the .223 into 7.62 I wanted to be sure each cartridge/bullet seating length was going to drop in the barrel.

Dave, I hear whatcher sayin'...

I have a worn C96 Mauser Broomhandle that will fire my cut-down .223 cartridges, but when I reload those fired cases and try them in my 7.62 Serbian M57, they won't go all the way in...So to correct this, I make sure the case length is trimmed to under .990" and then run them through the 30 Mauser sizing die and then I run them through a .223 sizing die...Then they will slide right in [when loaded]...

I'm making up a small batch of 30 Luger brass today, using once-fired PSD 84 military brass...Military brass has a crimped primer pocket, so removing the crimp is an extra step...And military cases have thicker walls, so the necks will need to be reamed...I measure .011" neck wall thickness on new/unfired Winchester-Western 30 Luger cases, and these PSD 84 cases have a .016" neck wall thickness [when trimmed & formed but before reaming]...More extra steps vs commercial .223 Remington brass...

Another tip I got from somewhere years ago is if you run out of Case Lube go to your local hardware/auto parts store and get some STP Oil Treatment and use that instead...Quicker & cheaper...

I want to load my 7.65 x 53 Argentine Mauser and while I have some brass, I can't find any distributor with powder...I want IMR 4895 or 4064 plus a pound of Red Dot for the Luger/Mauser, and I tried Midway, Natchez, Midsouth, and Cabelas and none of them have 4895 and only one listed Red Dot...I was planning on ordering some primers and .303 British brass and some more .223 Remington brass with the powder...My two local LGS's have no powder I want either...

To make things worse, my local LGS tells me that starting in January, NYS residents buying powder will have to submit to a NICS check before they can buy the powder...
It looks like my cartridge cases will sit quite a while before I can load them...

[sheepherder]

I been digging through all my old boxes (I moved 18 years ago; not everything is unpacked yet) and found a conversion I did many years ago...A C96 Mauser re-barreled for a .256" wildcat cartridge...

My usual .223"/5.56mm cartridge cases cut down so that OAL will be the same as a 30 Mauser (which this once was). .256 Winchester Magnum chambering reamer in a .256" barrel blank turned down & threaded into a 30 Mauser receiver. It was much longer originally (I posted a pic of it back then) but I shortened it for convenience. Also to retain what little hearing I have left - This cartridge made a really loud crack...

RCBS .256 Winchester Magnum die set cut down to '30 Mauser' size...I fired off most of my reloads, had a couple left over...