Decent .30 Commercial Spotted...

Pete Ebbink · 09-04-2003, 07:20 PM

Was up at DJ's Sport & Loan shop this week in Bothell, WA. They have a very nice (strong 98%) .30 cal. DWM 1920 commercial with a 3-3/4" barrel. Asking was $ 850.00, but it is not a consignment piece so I suspect they might take less. This gun has only a little side-plate wear, commercial numbers match, and has very nice, original light beech-colored grips in perfect shape and an equally nice and colored magazine. Finish is original and bore was very sharp and bright. Gun is stamped "Germany" on left side of frame (and I think the barrel, too, if I remember correctly...).

They also had a 1913/1920 DWM police rework in 9 mm with a sear safety, only. Gun looked decent at ~ 90% or so and asking was only $ 695.00...this was a consignment piece.

(As usual, I have no connection with this luger...just saw a nice one that I thought a Member might want to consider...).

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

unspellable · 09-05-2003, 07:52 AM

I am confused. I thought a 1920 commercial should have a military style serial number, being built up from military production over run, while the 1923 commercial, being the first actual from scratch production after the war, should have a commercial style serial number.

Pete Ebbink · 09-05-2003, 01:49 PM

Hello Noel,

I am pretty sure this 1920 Commercial luger was a 4-digit + suffix serialled pistol that was numbered in the commercial style.

According to Jan Still's book, "Weimar & Early Nazi Lugers" on pages 28-29; this one might be what Jan call's the undated "Commercial Subvariation" from the "Alphabet DWM" series (using Jan's newer terminology). Similar photo is shown by Jan on page 270 in the same book.

On page 29, Jan writes about these Commercial lugers in the i,k,l,m,n,o,p,q, and r serial range that "...these have been long termed 1920 Commericals...".

I am pretty sure it had the upright C/N proof, had a short barrel that could have easily been 3-5/8" rather than the 3-3/4" I reported earlier, and had the "Germany" stamp(s).

However, this stop at DJ's was my last after about 5 other shops and was at the end of a grueling road trip, so I might be wrong on some details. The shop is listed in the yellow pages and the folks seem to be very friendly on the phone...so if you have interest, you might give them a call. I am sure this one is a very nice pistol and in great original shape...

I really do still get confused, myself, about the Weimar-era pistols...but maybe that is a permanent state for me...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

unspellable · 09-05-2003, 02:20 PM

I am thinking that a military style number is four digits with a suffix and a chamber date, albeit, ground off in most cases. A commercial style number would be six or more digits with no suffix?

I don't remember if there was supposed to be a diffeence in the location or the font of the number.

Pete Ebbink · 09-06-2003, 11:48 AM

Hello Noel,

On page 270 in Jan Still's book, "Weimar & Early Nazi Lugers", he shows a good photo of one nice 1920 Commercial (which he calls Alphabet DWM lugers).

It has a blank chamber, vertical C/N proof, has a 4-digit + suffix serial, and does not show any military-style number stampings.

Let me know if you have this book or not. If no, I would be glad to mail you relevant pages...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Doubs · 09-06-2003, 12:30 PM

Following WW1, commercial production serial numbers picked up where they had left off prior to the war.... approximately 75,000 (IIRC). The change-over from commercial numbers to the 4-digit "Alphabet" Lugers took place at approximately 92,000. The "i" suffix places production at the 90,000 point if the alphabet is followed. Until then, commercial production used five digits and no suffix letter.

If, as Pete reports, the pistol is a "1920" 4-digit commercial, it will (or should) have a suffix letter. The description he gives is consistent with the "Alphabet" Lugers, including the standing C/N commercial proof and the commercial-style serial number placement.

This information is all covered very well in Jan Still's book "Weimar Lugers".

9885jim · 12-30-2007, 12:35 PM

Bothel is not to far from where I live, how long ago did you see the guns? thanks jim

Pete Ebbink · 12-30-2007, 12:39 PM

Hi Jim,

I visited this shop in Bothell back in 2003...this discussion thread is quite old.

I am not sure if the DJ shop is still there and/or what Lugers they may have.

Maybe check 411-info. and call the shop after the Holidays...I am sure you will not see those '2003' prices...

John Sabato · 12-31-2007, 09:37 AM

Jim,

Welcome tothe Lugerforum and Happy New Year to you... If you look under the user name on the left side of the page, the line just before the following post shows the date when a post took place. Good luck on your Luger hunting...

9885jim · 01-01-2008, 11:35 PM

Pete do you have a telehone no.for DJ's sport shop or a e-mail address? I'm interested in the police luger I'm from tacoma thanks 9885 jim my e-mail address is j.timbrook@att.net tel:253-565-8469

Edward Tinker · 01-01-2008, 11:37 PM

Jim, this thread / posting is over 4 years old. there is no way it is at this gun shop...

Please read the replies placed after your first inquiry...

Ed:

09-04-2003, 07:20 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Decent .30 Commercial Spotted... Was up at DJ's Sport & Loan shop this week in Bothell, WA. They have a very nice (strong 98%) .30 cal. DWM 1920 commercial with a 3-3/4" barrel. Asking was $ 850.00, but it is not a consignment piece so I suspect they might take less. This gun has only a little side-plate wear, commercial numbers match, and has very nice, original light beech-colored grips in perfect shape and an equally nice and colored magazine. Finish is original and bore was very sharp and bright. Gun is stamped "Germany" on left side of frame (and I think the barrel, too, if I remember correctly...). They also had a 1913/1920 DWM police rework in 9 mm with a sear safety, only. Gun looked decent at ~ 90% or so and asking was only $ 695.00...this was a consignment piece. (As usual, I have no connection with this luger...just saw a nice one that I thought a Member might want to consider...). Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

12-31-2007, 09:37 AM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Jim, Welcome tothe Lugerforum and Happy New Year to you... If you look under the user name on the left side of the page, the line just before the following post shows the date when a post took place. Good luck on your Luger hunting... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-01-2008, 11:37 PM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,911 Thanks: 1,987 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	Jim, this thread / posting is over 4 years old. there is no way it is at this gun shop... Please read the replies placed after your first inquiry... Ed: __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-05-2003, 07:52 AM	#2
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 10 Posts	I am confused. I thought a 1920 commercial should have a military style serial number, being built up from military production over run, while the 1923 commercial, being the first actual from scratch production after the war, should have a commercial style serial number.

09-05-2003, 01:49 PM	#3
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Noel, I am pretty sure this 1920 Commercial luger was a 4-digit + suffix serialled pistol that was numbered in the commercial style. According to Jan Still's book, "Weimar & Early Nazi Lugers" on pages 28-29; this one might be what Jan call's the undated "Commercial Subvariation" from the "Alphabet DWM" series (using Jan's newer terminology). Similar photo is shown by Jan on page 270 in the same book. On page 29, Jan writes about these Commercial lugers in the i,k,l,m,n,o,p,q, and r serial range that "...these have been long termed 1920 Commericals...". I am pretty sure it had the upright C/N proof, had a short barrel that could have easily been 3-5/8" rather than the 3-3/4" I reported earlier, and had the "Germany" stamp(s). However, this stop at DJ's was my last after about 5 other shops and was at the end of a grueling road trip, so I might be wrong on some details. The shop is listed in the yellow pages and the folks seem to be very friendly on the phone...so if you have interest, you might give them a call. I am sure this one is a very nice pistol and in great original shape... I really do still get confused, myself, about the Weimar-era pistols...but maybe that is a permanent state for me... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

09-05-2003, 02:20 PM	#4
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 10 Posts	I am thinking that a military style number is four digits with a suffix and a chamber date, albeit, ground off in most cases. A commercial style number would be six or more digits with no suffix? I don't remember if there was supposed to be a diffeence in the location or the font of the number.

09-06-2003, 11:48 AM	#5
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Noel, On page 270 in Jan Still's book, "Weimar & Early Nazi Lugers", he shows a good photo of one nice 1920 Commercial (which he calls Alphabet DWM lugers). It has a blank chamber, vertical C/N proof, has a 4-digit + suffix serial, and does not show any military-style number stampings. Let me know if you have this book or not. If no, I would be glad to mail you relevant pages... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

09-06-2003, 12:30 PM	#6
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,614 Times in 525 Posts	Following WW1, commercial production serial numbers picked up where they had left off prior to the war.... approximately 75,000 (IIRC). The change-over from commercial numbers to the 4-digit "Alphabet" Lugers took place at approximately 92,000. The "i" suffix places production at the 90,000 point if the alphabet is followed. Until then, commercial production used five digits and no suffix letter. If, as Pete reports, the pistol is a "1920" 4-digit commercial, it will (or should) have a suffix letter. The description he gives is consistent with the "Alphabet" Lugers, including the standing C/N commercial proof and the commercial-style serial number placement. This information is all covered very well in Jan Still's book "Weimar Lugers".

12-30-2007, 12:35 PM	#7
9885jim User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: tacoma wa Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Bothel is not to far from where I live, how long ago did you see the guns? thanks jim

12-30-2007, 12:39 PM	#8
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Jim, I visited this shop in Bothell back in 2003...this discussion thread is quite old. I am not sure if the DJ shop is still there and/or what Lugers they may have. Maybe check 411-info. and call the shop after the Holidays...I am sure you will not see those '2003' prices...

01-01-2008, 11:35 PM	#10
9885jim User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: tacoma wa Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Pete do you have a telehone no.for DJ's sport shop or a e-mail address? I'm interested in the police luger I'm from tacoma thanks 9885 jim my e-mail address is j.timbrook@att.net tel:253-565-8469