My new 1911A1. Got some questions for you guys.

[Terry Tiell]

Just got back from the range and putting 200 rounds down the barrel and I noticed a couple things that maybe some of you could clear up for me, this is my very first brand new gun ever so I don't know if its right or not. The first probly 50 rounds were all over the place! I mean I never missed the target but at 25 feet it looked like I let loose with a shotgun! After that it seemed to start to get a decent grouping to it though it shoots low to the left but I'm ordering new adjustable night sights for it so I'm not too worried about that.

Anyway my questions are is it normal for the rounds to all over the place like that? Also when I got home and field stripped it to clean it MY GOD it was FILTHY!!! I mean way worse then my Luger ever has been, even after 500 rounds at the range the Luger was NEVER that dirty. Is this just cause its new or is the .45 just a dirty gun?

[Ron Smith]

Terry,

You didn't mention what make it is. Most 1911 variations will require a minimum of 200 + rounds to break-in. A very good friend who used to custom build 1911s said that he never determined how accurate one was going to be, until he had fired at least 200+ rds through it. He built some very high end beautiful custom 1911s. If accuracy wasn't up to his exacting standards, he would tear it down and start over.

In addition, if you haven't shot a 1911 much, it takes some getting used to and adjustment to fire them accurately. Much the reason a lot of GI's thought they were inaccurate rattle traps, which they are not. Once you learn to shoot them.

An arched or flat mainspring housing, short or long trigger, can also effect how you hold them, in turn effecting accuracy depending on the size of your hand and length of your fingers.

The two most critical accuracy points on a 1911 are the barrel link length, and barrel bushing, the third being how tightly the slide is on the rails. Adjusting the link and the bushing often negates any discernible slide play on the rails

When the slide is closed, firmly press down on the top of the barrel hood (chamber) with you thumb. If there is any downward play or movement, a longer fitted link is needed for better accuracy. The barrel bushing should fit the muzzle snugly, with as little radial play as possible.

As far as being dirty. That depends on what type of powder the ammo was loaded with. Some powders burn clean, others burn like coal in a steam engine.

Ron

[rhuff]

I agree 100% with Ron. If you are new to the 1911 platform, it will take a bit of time to become familiar with it. Dry firing it at home is a big help to learn the grip and trigger. New handguns are usually stiff, and with cleaning, lubing, and usage, they will loosen up. If you are shooting your new 1911 low and to the left, you are jerking the trigger. I mean this as no offense to you, it is just a statement of fact, and very common to new shooters of the 1911 in 45ACP caliber. Let an experienced 1911 shooter shoot it, and then decide if you need adjustable sights or not. If you have already ordered them, that is good also, as you can adjust them to the ammo(bullet weight) that you chose to shoot. Dry firing is you friend.

[Terry Tiell]

Its a Rock Island Armory 1911A1, just a nice basic .45. Its good to know about it needing to have some ammo run thru it, that and I guess I just need more practice with it. Do you think maybe the trigger will get smoother to pull with more rounds put thru it?

No offence taken at all! I've had a local .45 "expert" offer to check the gun out for me and take it for a test drive so that will be done as soon as we an set a meeting at the range.

It also looks like I need to work on my stance and how tightly I grip the gun and how high I hold it. Man this thing ain't NOTHING like the Luger! My Luger I just point and squeeze and an take out the red of the bullseye in 8 shots at 25ft. But then I have put over 2000 rounds thru my Luger sine I rebuilt her so that maaaay have something to do with it.

[Ron Smith]

Terry,

Take your 1911 , make sure it's unloaded . C*ck ( if I use the "o" it censors the word) the hammer. Now press the hammer forward very firmly with your off-hand thumb, while simultaneously pulling the trigger.
Keep doing this several times, then try the trigger for smoothness. Keep repeating this action, and you will begin to notice that the trigger will get smoother with an even crisp break to it. Doing this will "de-burr" the sear and trigger. Also, the more you shoot it the better it gets.

Ron

[Edward Tinker]

Ron, use the 0 (zero)

Terry, what distance were you shooting?

Some 1911's are accurate as heck, but others, like those that are military designed, are loose on purpose, but even a military spec 45 should be fairly accurate.


Ed

[mrerick]

The Rock Island Armory 1911a1 pistols are made in the Philippines and imported by ArmsCor in Nevada.

A large number of the parts in these pistols are manufactured using Metal Injection Molding (MIM). I have a Tactical version of this pistol.

The fit and finish in these 1911A1 pistols is different than what you'll find from companies that use other metal working techniques.

My RIA had a good tight slide to frame fit, and a nice close barrel bushing and barrel link. It would be worth taking a look at the rear of the frame/slide when the pistol is in battery with ammo in the chamber to see how flat it fits. There should be very little difference in the levels of the two parts along the back where they come together near the hammer.

The Ambi safety lever on my RIA was so poorly cast that it had to be replaced by the factory before I even got to shoot it. It cost almost $100 to FedEx it to Pahrump, Nevada (which must be quite a distance from civilization). They did polish the ramp and check the action over when they had it.

Marc

[Ron Smith]

My Wife's Uncle had a gold claim in Pahrump. It's a fur piece from pert'near everwhere. About halfway between Las Vegas and Death Valley, CA. right on the border.

[Terry Tiell]

Thanks Ron I'll try that tomorrow.

[rhuff]

Terry,

Did you lube the hammer/sear interface? I use a moly lube in that area, but any good lube should suffice. With usage, the trigger will improve, and it costs nothing to dry fire it, and unlike in the Luger, it will not damage anything in a 1911. If you are worried about dry firing it, just purchase some 45ACP snap-caps....,they are very cheap.

[Terry Tiell]

Met up with a U.S. air marshal this afternoon and he tried my 1911 out and damn all 8 shots in the size of a golf ball at 25ft. So he gave me a few pointers and that really helped me out. The trigger feels "gritty" as he said and the factory combat sights are "crap" as he put it so I'm getting new sights and if the trigger doesn't smooth out in the next few hundred rounds it'll have to go in for a trigger job. But now I'm putting all 8 in a group the size of a baseball at 25ft instead of a shotgun pattern.

[ithacaartist]

[QUOTE=Terry Tiell;218988...But now I'm putting all 8 in a group the size of a baseball at 25ft instead of a shotgun pattern. [/QUOTE]

Terry, I'm going through the same growing pains, shooting low, left, and disturbingly large pattern with my Phillipino CNC'd 1911, a High Standard. However, I've only put about 75 rounds through it so far, so I'll run through another few boxes and see if my shooting results calm down a bit.

Interestingly, everything else I shoot tends to the left, as well. This would include 9mm, 7.65 mm and converted .22 Lugers, and some Ermas in .380, .32, and .22 I'm thinking that my technique is hurting in some way--such as the trigger jerking mentioned, though I'm pretty conscious of the firm grip, straight arm rule of thumb for Lugers. What else should I be adjusting or making sure of, concerning my stance/technique?

[mrerick]

Hi David,

This may help. I use it for diagnosis with my basic pistol classes. These charts are for right handed shooters.

On the 1911, I find it helps me tighten things up if I focus my grip on front against back pressure, with very little exerted on the sides.

Terry,

Sounds like you've found a good coach! Way to go...


Marc

[rhuff]

Marc,

That is the graft that I was looking for, but could not find for some reason. It is a good general way of looking at shooting results.

[mrerick]

I also have a favorite device for training. I call it a .45 or 9mm pencil...

I take a regular round #2 pencil (for 9mm) or a slightly larger round children's school pencil (for .45 caliber), put some shrink wrap tubing around the metal eraser attaching sleeve (to protect the barrel), insert them eraser first - all the way against the face of the breech and then shoot them out of the barrel. Position yourself about six inches away from a sheet of paper taped to the wall, that has a 1/8 inch red dot printed on it. This should appear about the width of the front sight when you are aiming.

You take aim at the red dot, doing sight alignment then forming a full sight picture, then fire the pencil at the paper on the wall. This will leave a small graphite dot where the pencil hits. It will be below the red dot on the paper, but should (after several shots) begin to show a grouping. Practice until the grouping gets very small.

This practice exercise helps you work through trigger control, grip, aiming and follow-through fundamentals. And, each "shot" costs essentially nothing.

Marc

[CAP Black]

I'm not sure what you are diagraming. Really shoot the pencil? What's the propellant? What am I missing?
Thanks

[Jack Lawman]

The firing pin hits the eraser and propels the pencil. I've heard of it used to check firearm function (by popping the pencil straight up in the air), never as a marksmanship trainer as described above.

Jack

P.S. I'd imagine someplace, sometime, somebody propelled pencil fragments into their ceiling (and possibly their face) with a 230 grain booster rocket.

[Terry Tiell]

What he told me was to focus on the front sight blade, nothing else. Focus on it CLEARLY then as you breath once you exhale and just before you inhale a slow steady trigger pull and BOOM! Release the trigger take another breath focus on the front sight blade, exhale and squeeze again. Also try gripping as high as you can with a good firm grip make sure you stand with both of your feet shoulders width apart and make sure both feet are even meaning neither one is ahead of the other. Hold with both arms straight out so your 2 arms and shoulders form a tri-angle also try slightly bending at the knees and slightly leaning forward this is how he shoots and he does a damn good job! Give it a try and let me know if any of his tips help.

Low left according to Mike is from jerking the trigger.

[Ron Smith]

"What he told me was to focus on the front sight blade, nothing else."

Terry,

He's correct. A good sight picture is blurred rear sight , blurred target , clear front sight. This is why "peep" sights are more accurate than "open" sights once you learn to use them.

Your eye can only focus on one plane or distance at a time. Once the sights are lined up, your eye will naturally center the rear sight. When you try to focus on all 3 planes at the same time, all 3 will be blurred and will tend to wander.

[Jack Lawman]

Originally Posted by Terry Tiell

...make sure you stand with both of your feet shoulders width apart and make sure both feet are even meaning neither one is ahead of the other. Hold with both arms straight out so your 2 arms and shoulders form a tri-angle also try slightly bending at the knees and slightly leaning forward...

This is known as the "Isosceles Stance"... a great defensive stance and my preferred stance. Bending the knees slightly is critical. It puts your weight on the balls of your feet keeping you ready to move quickly and surefootedly as the situation dictates. This is not the preferred stance for bullseye type competition, but many will shoot as well out of this stance as any other. More on the subject:
http://www.americanrifleman.org/arti...ooting-stance/

Originally Posted by Terry Tiell

Low left according to Mike is from jerking the trigger.

In my experience, shots hitting low left are primarily the result of anticipating recoil. I guess you can say shooters jerk the trigger when they anticipate. Randomly mix live rounds with dummy rounds in a magazine. Some go boom, some go click. You can watch people (righties) push their pistol down and to the left as they anticipate recoil, but only get he click. It's a good exercise. You have mastered it when the gun goes click and the pistol remains dead still. Now you are focusing, pressing the trigger, and following through.

Here's a picture I lifted off the internet and cannot credit the source. It's a good representation of focusing on the front sight: