Luger / Walther 9MM to .22 Conversion unit

[sheepherder]

...on eBay...Yes, I know it's revshop...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Luger-Walthe...-/311456240128

I can't quite grasp what is going on here...

As best I can guess, the long tube goes in from the breech, bottoming out at the chamber case mouth...The brass nut & sleeve go on to lock the tube in place...And the little cartridge shaped adapter holds the .22 cartridge...

I suppose that little ram is for popping the fired .22 case out of the adapter?

So it's single shot, no feed, no cycling, and you put the .22 cartridges in the adapter and then put that in the pistol chamber (behind the tube which it butts up against)...

Anyone know what the white washer on the end of the tube does???

I don't see how the Luger/Walther firing pin can ignite the .22 cartridge...Are all the pieces there???

Not at all like the Erma unit...

I have no affiliation with revshop and do not plan on bidding on this...Just want to understand it...

[Zorba]

And its for .22 short?

[ithacaartist]

I have no affiliation with revshop and do not plan on bidding on this...Just want to understand it...

Me, too. The pics aren't much in comparison to having the parts and a pistol in-hand, to try stuff out, but I think your description is right on. But how does a center fire gun fire a .22 rimfire?

The Ken-ster has several more conversion kits listed... Where does he find this stuff? These are pretty interesting; I don't recall this make's being discussed before.

Originally Posted by zormpas

And its for .22 short?

These dealies are usually for .22lr. but this one says .22kurz, indeed.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

But how does a center fire gun fire a .22 rimfire?

Maybe some kind of 'rocking' firing pin in the 9mm adapter??? Maybe that's why the 'short' .22 cartridge???

I actually made one of these up when we were discussing that Erma kit on eBay with the missing rear block...But I couldn't get it to reliably fire the rimfie .22's...I could only get one brand [RWS I think] to fire at all, and only like 1 in 10...

He has more of these??? I didn't look any farther...Too many Mickey Thompson rocker covers...

Price actually doesn't seem too out of line...

[Vlim]

I have a couple of these sets. One is a 4mm M20 conversion, the other a .22lr version.

The .22lr version works with a dummy 9mm 'stub' that converts the centerfire firing pin strike to a rimfire strike.

The post war Erma SE08/2 set works relatively well, but is picky with ammo. Manuals confirmed this, and noted that before loading the magazine, to gently oil the .22lr rounds in an oily rag, to improve feeding and ejection...

The Lothar Walther sets are meant for single shot firing only.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Vlim

The .22lr version works with a dummy 9mm 'stub' that converts the centerfire firing pin strike to a rimfire strike.

But how??? Is there an angled hole drilled through the stub cartridge from center to rim??? With maybe a thin [2mm?] pin???

I couldn't quite see how the relatively weak Luger striker/firing pin (compared to say a 'heavy' S&W hammer) could transmit enough energy through an adapter to reliably fire the .22 cartridge...

Ken also has an adapter to fire .177" pellets using a cartridge primer...Never heard of that before...Basement practice maybe?...

[Vlim]

I'm not near my guns at the moment, so I can't take a detailed look. I did manage to increase the size of the photo of the conversion fp, you can see it even has a small rubber seal around the middle.

IIRC it is spring loaded inside, so a flat base the size of a primer that pushes against the smaller .22 pin.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Vlim

IIRC it is spring loaded inside, so a flat base the size of a primer that pushes against the smaller .22 pin.

I suppose the O-ring is just so the adapter won't fall out...

The spring-loaded part puzzles me...Does the spring push the 'firing pin' backward or forward??? It looks like the 'pin' is sticking out of the front...So if you pushed the adapter into the 'chamber', it would push the spring-loaded 'pin' back...

That's where it gets foggy...The pin can't be too big in diameter or the breechblock closing would fire it (instead of the Luger firing pin hitting the adapter pin)...

I was thinking of an angled firing pin...But maybe a 'Z' shaped firing pin, in a slot milled in the side of the adapter???

I'll try to find the patent drawings...I can think of a couple ways to make the adapter/firing pin, but they would all fire when the breech closes...hard to aim that way...

Maybe Gortz & Sturgess have information on it...Yes, they do!

But where is the spring???

[sheepherder]

Hmmmm...Ken's 'kit' is for .22 shorts [Model 151] while Gerben's is for .22 LR [Model 1-70]. The cartridge adapters are not the same.

Ken's Model 151 also has an extended portion with what look like soot-marked holes in it...

I'm getting an idea of how the .22 LR cartridge adapter works...Unfortunately, it's 'micro-machining', which is pretty much beyond my skill/tool level...

Edit: Found a couple threads over on WaltherForums detailing the .22 & .177/sub-caliber adapters and the trials of members there dealing with the eBay seller...

http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/p...el-pp-ppk.html

http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/p...rsion-set.html

http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/p...t-however.html

[ithacaartist]

Walther Factory .22 L.R. Conversion Kit for KAL 38 or 357 Revolver http://www.ebay.com/itm/Walther-Fact...3D311456240128

Walther .22 LR Conversion Kit for 4" S & W 44 Magnum Revolver http://www.ebay.com/itm/Walther-22-L...3D141781526794

Walther PPK .22 Conversion for PPK http://www.ebay.com/itm/Walther-PPK-...3D311449932720

Luger Swiss conversion unit http://www.ebay.com/itm/Luger-Swiss-...3D311449928376

Etc.

[sheepherder]

One of the members of WaltherForums has pics of different sub-caliber adapter cartridges, this one looks like the Lothar Walther adapter for the .22LR...

Simple enough looking. Just a hollow shell with a center rod with an off-center pin sticking through the front. The shell plus the barrel insert flange equal the 9mm case length. The breechblock would hold it in place. I would guess that the pin is pressed into the rod (or maybe machined as part of the center section?).

I have to wonder what the center section is made of. It can't do the Luger firing pin any good to hit anything hard, even if it does move...

Edit: Looking closer, it looks like the center section has something in the middle of it, where the Luger firing pin strikes...The cross-section shows something that looks to be shaped like a primer...A softer metal? Brass or copper maybe???

[Vlim]

I was going through some stuff in order to update my photographs and thought I'd make some photos of the Lothar Walther 4mmM20 conversion kit for the HSc pistol:

It is shown installed in a factory HSc cutaway, this helps to see the fit of the insert and the adaptor cartridge.

[Vlim]

Additionally, 2 simple conversion barrels with a bayonet fitting:

RWS .22 centerfire (marke 'N' ammunition).

RWS 4mm M20 barrel.

And the 4mm M20 conversion barrel that was patented by Polte. These were sold in small quantities to the Reichswehr for practice purposes.

[Schupo]

Here is the Erma 4mm example for the P.08 used by the Police.