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Unread 02-24-2024, 04:03 PM   #1
EdinFla
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Default Call for data concerning 1920 and 1921 Dated Lugers

Data Base Descriptions

The purpose of this exercise is to assemble data on DWM pistols manufactured in the period 1920-1921 which were, presumably, for the use of the Weimer police and Military.

Criteria For Inclusion
All are 9mm And all have Eagle proofs and acceptance marks and have chamber dates of 1920 or 1921.

There are basically two flavors of these weapons. The first is the continuation of the pre-war DWM commercial production. These are characterized by five-digit serial numbers (referred to as 20 DWM). The second is DWM production specifically for Police and Military. These are numbered with a 4 digit serial followed by a letter and positioned in the military style (referred to as 1920 DWM).

It had been assumed that the numbering of the 1920 DWM examples used the “no suffix” (ns), a and b blocks exclusively. However it has been reported that DWM produced a series, in 1920, using the n block. Where they are found they, too, will be included (lifted from the thread on this site and other places).

These pistols comprise the subject matter for the proposed data base.

What follows is a description of the sources of the data and the assumptions that are being made in the interpretation of the data.

DATA
Dwight Gruber's Commercial Data Base*. This data was converted to a spreadsheet for ease of examination and searches were performed for various elements.
History Writ in Steel (HWIS) by Don Maus.
Police Lugers by Tinker and Gruber
Weimer Lugers by Jan Still

And both this Forum, the NAPCA Forum and the Still Luger Forum as well as sales sites opportunistically.

The data that I am attempting to collect includes the following. Note that this is beyond optimistic. Very few cases have all this info.

1. Chamber Date
2. Serial Number
3. Serial Letter
4. “1920” Stamp (Y/N)
5. The inspection/Proof stamps on the barrel extension and the barrel and toggle (5 entries)
6. Any Inscriptions,
7. Presence/Absence/Removal of Sear Safety & Mag Safety

n.b. Partial data is OK but the absence or incompleteness of a serial renders the exercise pointless. That said, a serial and chamber date are the two minimum pieces of data that must be provided.

My plot is to cull the sources for a bit and then take stock of what I have accumulated. I will probably produce some summary statistics and share them here and in the NAPCA rag.

The result will be, I hope, a comprehensive data base of Luger pistols produced for the German Police and Military during the period 1920-1921. Nothing more, nothing less.

I would appreciate any suggestions and any data.
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Unread 02-25-2024, 10:38 AM   #2
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Default Call for data concerning 1920 and 1921 Dated Lugers

Lets see
Happy to help

1. Chamber Date: 1921
2. Serial Number: 7295
3. Serial Letter: No Letter
4. 1920 Stamp (Y/N) : 1921 Only
5. The inspection/Proof stamps on the barrel extension and the barrel and toggle (5 entries): DWM on Toggle 3 of the Dove style Proofs on Extension small cant tell style on Barrel
6. Any Inscriptions: On Front Strap 5./A.R.3.30.
7. Presence/Absence/Removal of Sear Safety & Mag Safety: No Saftey
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Unread 02-25-2024, 03:31 PM   #3
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Please re-confirm the receiver stamps. Please do not call them dove-anything They are EAGLE/WaA4 inspection and acceptance. The proof stamps should be a different eagle ArA4--this stamp is on the barrel as well, although it is usually very poorly stamped. The same eagle should be found on the left side of the breechblock, again poorly stamped. The designations under the eagles are important data.

Please note, if all three stamps on the receiver are actually e/WaA4 this is a data point which should be addressed specifically, as it is not expected and may be important.

Also, there are some of these pistols found with a very different style of eagle stamp with no letters underneath. This should be addressed specifically as well.

--Dwight
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Unread 02-25-2024, 05:54 PM   #4
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Easier
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Unread 02-26-2024, 02:01 AM   #5
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Very good. And I would like to point point something about the e/WaA4 stamps. Costanzo, in his Proof marks book, deliberately misrepresents these stamps by expressly calling them doves, and drawing them to look like doves with their beaks pointing "up." Part of the problem with the stamps as they exist is that the dies were very poorly made, and crucial detail was worn away quickly in use. It is possible to see, in your examples, that there is a very tiny, pointy beak extending to the left (the eagle's right, as the bird's body faces the viewer). It is this detail which has worn away quickly to disguise the stamp, and make it possible to casually accept Costanzo's deception.

--Dwight
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Unread 02-26-2024, 05:56 PM   #6
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1. Chamber Date: 1920
2. Serial Number: 1473
3. Serial Letter: b
4. 1920 Stamp (Y/N): Y
5. The inspection/Proof stamps on the barrel extension and the barrel and toggle (5 entries): 3 proof marks on the barrel extension, one on the barrel and one on the toggle (see pictures)
6. Any Inscriptions: No inscriptions
7. Presence/Absence/Removal of Sear Safety & Mag Safety: No sear or mag safety
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Unread 02-26-2024, 09:24 PM   #7
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Default 1920 Luger P-08

I have a 1920 dated P-08 Luger, sn. 6407n on the frame and the bottom of the barrel and just 6407 or 07 on the rest of the pistol.
It has the DWM logo on the forward toggle link and looks to be all
matching except for the wood bottom magazine and the hold open.
I found this P-08 interesting in that nothing is strawed on the pistol, everything is blued, except for the firing pin which is numbered to the pistol. Grips look to be original but are not numbered.
If you would like I can post photos of the pistol. The five proofs are the same as the pistol shown above and in the same places.
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Unread 02-26-2024, 10:29 PM   #8
Neil Young
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I have a 1921 dated DWM with a 5-digit serial number. Interested? It has the police modifications.
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