A 1921 DWM German Luger

Would really appreciate any information on 2 questions I have about the above 1921 DWM German Luger

1. On the right rail (if that is the correct term) of the frame, in print so small you need a magnifying glass to read it, are the words "NOT ENGLISH MADE".

2. On the front strap is the designation

"J.R.5.20.". The letters "J" and "R" are in capitals, the number "5" is slightly smaller then the "J" and "R", and the number "20" is half the height of the number"5".

Does anyone have _any_ idea what the above 2 stampings mean?

[Doug]

The "Not English Made" is a British import stamp. Any gun brought into the country was required to be so marked. As for the grip strap is the 5th Jager Regiment (Infantry) pistol # 20.

Doug,


Thank you very much for your informative and extremely fast response.

I really _appreciate_ it.

Hope you don't mind, but would like to ask you one _more_ question.

In _your_ opinion, why and when would this have happened, I mean that this Luger ended up in England, that is?

Were Lugers _sold_ to England before World War 11, or did it end up there as a _result_ of World !!? Captured, and _then_ sent to England, that is.

What do you _think_?

Thank you _again_.

Al

[Doug]

Seeing how your gun is regiment marked I would assume that it was a capture piece. There were P.08's and other guns being brought into the UK after WWI. Vickars in England also made Lugers from imported parts. If you look on the barrel it should also have a proof rating in tons/sq in.

[Johnny Peppers]

The proofs are commercial proofs and had to be applied before the pistol could be sold in England. Normally the barrel, slide, and receiver were all proofed. The NOT ENGLISH MAKE was a requirement of the Proof Act of 1925-1955.

Many of the Lend-Lease weapons sent to England during WWII were released for commercial sale in the 1950's and will bear the same proofs.

Al, Even if this luger was unoffically imported into GB by a returning soldier, for him to legally register (manditory) it, it had to go thru the proof house at his expense. Tom h

[Lonnie Zimmerman]

Al; what these fellows say is true. I have an early HSC that has British Proofs, just as you discribe, except it doesn"t have not made in england on it.


Lonnie

You guys sure have a wealth of _knowledge_ on this subject.

Really appreciate your taking the time and effort to _share_ it with me.

Would lke to ask only 2 _more_ questions.

1. What does "HSC" mean in Lonnies answer to me?

2. Since WW1 ended in 1918, and my Luger is dated 1921, can I assume it was captured WW11 and _then_ ended up in England either in a shipment or in someone's personal possession?

Is there any reason to believe it would have gone to England _between_ WW1 and WW11?

Is _that_ possible?

Thanks again.

Al

[Doug]

The HSC is a model designation on the Mauser mfg. pistol. Not sure if it stands for anything, but it probably does. As for the date on your gun, it was common when reworking a P.08 after the war to remove the original date and to stamp a new one. Especially if it was reworked for the police. Dose it have a sear saftey added? It is possible that your gun did not get to England until after WWII.

[Johnny Peppers]

Lonnie,

In 1955 the Proof Act was changed which did away with the requirement for the NOT ENGLISH MAKE.

[Joe]

The model HSc pistol was the last designed pistol made by Mauser in WW II. It had a very "streamlined" style to it and was manufactured up until the 1970s. It came in .380 cal. and replaced the model 1934. It was a very reliable design.

Your Luger is apparently a Weimar Army issue, that somehow ended up in England after the new import law. I do not think that it was imported into England prior to WW II, as the German Army was not selling surplus Lugers.

I thank you one and all...._again_...for taking the time to answer my questions.

I hate to sound _stupid_......but, guess I _am_....because I don't know the answer to Doug's question as to whether or not a sear safety was added, because I don't know what a sear safety would _look_ like, or where it would _be_.

It has the usual _thumb_ safety, though, which when brought down to make the gun _safe_, exposes the word "GESICHERT" under it, but, that's all I _know_.

Since I don't know what a sear safety _is_, I can't answer the question as to whether the gun _has_ one or not.

Al

[Lonnie Zimmerman]

Randy Bessler, a well know dealer, told me that German pistols captured by the Brits were proofed and then returned to the soilder that captured them. Doesn"t make sense to me, but the Brits are weird/


Lonnie

[John Sabato]

was available in both 7.65mm (32acp) and 9mm Kurz (380acp)


It is just another of those fine German automatic pistols in a class by itself...


Hope you like the photo...


-John




http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/99896.jpg

[John Sabato]

The HSc in 32 ACP served as my 'backup' for many years while working actively in Law Enforcement. I still have "little sister', as she was lovingly referred to. A sleek, slim, trim little lady, double action, slide stayed back after the last round, mag out, new mag in, slide forward, fresh round chambered, ready to go. You never had to take your eyes off the bad guy. At that time so far ahead of what was on the market, it is still in the top of it's class. The 32ASP in Silver Tip will tear things up!

[schwob]

P.S., a great picture John. Sorry to have gotten away from our Lugers

I prefer the Luger talk, but don't mind in the least additional info about other guns, stories and such, as long as they lean toward the hobby one way or another!


Makes it a very enjoyable forum.


ed

[John Sabato]

Heaven forbid that it should ever be that rigid to post here...You just have to keep things in perspective. My reply and photograph were responses to a legitimate request for information about lugers by Al Gordon who evidently thought that the letters HSc were a Luger marking. My answer was intended to clear things up for him and any others who may have made the same assumption.


The HSc was/is a great little gun, while not as small as a walther PP/PPK, that I regret not buying when they were CHEAP because nobody really was interested in them... and yes, I do very well remember the days when Lugers and p38's were advertised for less than $30 by mail including postage (when I was too young to take advantage of it).


So now that I am older and know better, it seems that all I can afford to do most of the time is collect photos of firearms .

[Thor]

John, this picture does show a sear safety but it is a little misleading and seems to stress a magazine safety.

Thor