Sent C&R App. Tonight

06-22-2001, 10:08 PM

I mailed C&R License Application registered mail, return receipt reguested to BATF in Dallas earlier this evening. I know the $64,000,000 New Jersey lottery winner merely dropped his winning ticket into the mail, but this was more important. Thanks, guys. Ad.

BILL · 06-23-2001, 12:56 AM

What's the first pistol your gonna buy?

06-23-2001, 06:16 PM

I dunno, Bill. I'm partial to a Krieghoff military (not a KUumlaut, however, because of the differences of opinion about them); because I served a very short stint in the USAF, and even during WWII the Luftwaffe seemed to preserve a semblance of the old Code of Chivalry. I also think an Abercrombie and Fitch would be nice; because it was probably originally owned by someone with style and taste that I can envy. (Sort of like wanting an old Bentley for similar reasons). Got any suggestions?

BILL · 06-23-2001, 06:31 PM

The Krieg sounds like a great start. I will make an unsolicited suggestion right off the bat..check out what Tom Heller and Ralph Shattuck have for sale first. I don't know what you already have in the line of Lugers but some kind of a theme is good. Try to get the full rig (you will pay more in the future to try to buy the accessories separately). Anything in mint condition is a rare find. There will always be low percentage Lugers for sale but the minty ones seem to stay locked up and passed down. Shooters are getting expensive and probably will become prohibitively expensive and hard to find..so, basically, buy everything you can lay your hands on before someone else does.

John D. · 06-23-2001, 07:41 PM

If you are serious about purchasing a Kreig - I would recommend you read as much as you can - and ask a lot of questions!! If there is any doubt about subtle proofs/marks - simply ask on this Board...

While a few dealers know what they have - many do not know the values nor what to look for. Recently, a "noted" dealer had an "excellent - all matching" Krieg - which I called on. I asked him to dis-assemble it while I was on the phone - and tell me what proof marks he saw on the small parts. In the final analysis - two of the small parts were NOT correct and were obvious replacements, and I informed him of that during that conversation. His reply was "so what - someone who doesn't know what to look for will buy it for that price - ALSO, since it's a consignment piece, so I don't have to tell them." Huh??? I've never bought an HK from that "dealer"...

So, be SURE of what the HK years are supposed to have for marks/proofs, etc. - it could save you thousands of dollars. Most notable "fakes" are side-frame and back-frame inscribed and parts guns with an HK toggle. Rigs are also difficult to judge about what is "correct" and what is not...

Anyway - if you would like my opinion of who are "quality dealers" of Kriegs - feel free to e-mail me off this Board. Further - if you find an HK you are considering - please drop me an e-mail off-line with any questions you may have - and I'll try to walk you through what to look for...

Yep, I understand the "romance" of Krieghoffs, and also agree the KU's are not in the same category - but that would be my personal opinion...

06-24-2001, 05:12 AM

Thanks Bill and John D. for your suggestions. I umderstand there IS a lot of fakery going on and I appreciate the offers of help. Rest assured I intend to take advantage of your kind offers. Ad.

renaissance · 06-24-2001, 05:20 PM

What's a "RIG" ?

Sorry for the Dumm Ass Question, but If you don't ask > you will never know!

BILL · 06-24-2001, 05:28 PM

A "rig" is the Luger plus the holster, spare mag, cleaning rod, takedown tool..whatever was originally issued with the pistol or available for it. For an artillery, a detachable stock would be part of the 'rig'. There are no dumb questions (except the ones that you don't ask).

renaissance · 06-28-2001, 06:36 AM

I have a 1940 "42" with Holster.

There is a compartment in the Holster which contains a tool of some kind.

I thought it was an aid to loading the magazine ( It works for that, slipping over the Mag riser button and enabling a good purchase for your thumb in compressing the spring > though I could never figure out why that would be necessary, the Mag is easy to load)

Besides, the hole for the button and a ledge for your thumb, it has a single medium sized screwdriver blade (or pry bar?).

Is this the "Takedown tool I hear about?

If not what is the "takedown tool"

My tool; has NO markings and is nicely blued.

How can I tell if this is original?

BILL · 06-28-2001, 09:43 AM

Yes, that is the takedown tool. The hole and thumb lever are designed for just what you describe. There are some mags that are a bear to load due to stronger springs. With the screwdriver tip you can remove the two grip screws and also remove the firing pin retainer and firing pin (be careful if you do this as it is under extreme spring pressure and, if not done carefully, could be really dangerous). The takedown tool usually resides in the little pouch in the top flap of the holster and can have either proof marks (actually acceptance marks) or none at all. The best way to tell if it is original is to compare it to one that is known to be real. There are many repros, they are cheap, but they don't seem to have the proper contour or shape. Many of the repros have phony acceptance marks stamped on them. An original tool goes for $25 to $120 depending on conditon and markings.

06-22-2001, 10:08 PM	#1
Ad. Guest Posts: n/a	Sent C&R App. Tonight I mailed C&R License Application registered mail, return receipt reguested to BATF in Dallas earlier this evening. I know the $64,000,000 New Jersey lottery winner merely dropped his winning ticket into the mail, but this was more important. Thanks, guys. Ad.

06-23-2001, 12:56 AM	#2
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Sent C&R App. Tonight What's the first pistol your gonna buy?

06-23-2001, 06:16 PM	#3
Ad. Guest Posts: n/a	What I'm gonna buy. I dunno, Bill. I'm partial to a Krieghoff military (not a KUumlaut, however, because of the differences of opinion about them); because I served a very short stint in the USAF, and even during WWII the Luftwaffe seemed to preserve a semblance of the old Code of Chivalry. I also think an Abercrombie and Fitch would be nice; because it was probably originally owned by someone with style and taste that I can envy. (Sort of like wanting an old Bentley for similar reasons). Got any suggestions?

06-23-2001, 06:31 PM	#4
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: What I'm gonna buy. The Krieg sounds like a great start. I will make an unsolicited suggestion right off the bat..check out what Tom Heller and Ralph Shattuck have for sale first. I don't know what you already have in the line of Lugers but some kind of a theme is good. Try to get the full rig (you will pay more in the future to try to buy the accessories separately). Anything in mint condition is a rare find. There will always be low percentage Lugers for sale but the minty ones seem to stay locked up and passed down. Shooters are getting expensive and probably will become prohibitively expensive and hard to find..so, basically, buy everything you can lay your hands on before someone else does.

06-23-2001, 07:41 PM	#5
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 471 Thanked 513 Times in 127 Posts	Re: What I'm gonna buy. If you are serious about purchasing a Kreig - I would recommend you read as much as you can - and ask a lot of questions!! If there is any doubt about subtle proofs/marks - simply ask on this Board... While a few dealers know what they have - many do not know the values nor what to look for. Recently, a "noted" dealer had an "excellent - all matching" Krieg - which I called on. I asked him to dis-assemble it while I was on the phone - and tell me what proof marks he saw on the small parts. In the final analysis - two of the small parts were NOT correct and were obvious replacements, and I informed him of that during that conversation. His reply was "so what - someone who doesn't know what to look for will buy it for that price - ALSO, since it's a consignment piece, so I don't have to tell them." Huh??? I've never bought an HK from that "dealer"... So, be SURE of what the HK years are supposed to have for marks/proofs, etc. - it could save you thousands of dollars. Most notable "fakes" are side-frame and back-frame inscribed and parts guns with an HK toggle. Rigs are also difficult to judge about what is "correct" and what is not... Anyway - if you would like my opinion of who are "quality dealers" of Kriegs - feel free to e-mail me off this Board. Further - if you find an HK you are considering - please drop me an e-mail off-line with any questions you may have - and I'll try to walk you through what to look for... Yep, I understand the "romance" of Krieghoffs, and also agree the KU's are not in the same category - but that would be my personal opinion...

06-24-2001, 05:12 AM	#6
Ad. Guest Posts: n/a	Re: What I'm gonna buy. Thanks Bill and John D. for your suggestions. I umderstand there IS a lot of fakery going on and I appreciate the offers of help. Rest assured I intend to take advantage of your kind offers. Ad.

06-24-2001, 05:20 PM	#7
renaissance User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 58 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Newbie Question What's a "RIG" ? Sorry for the Dumm Ass Question, but If you don't ask > you will never know!

06-24-2001, 05:28 PM	#8
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Newbie Question A "rig" is the Luger plus the holster, spare mag, cleaning rod, takedown tool..whatever was originally issued with the pistol or available for it. For an artillery, a detachable stock would be part of the 'rig'. There are no dumb questions (except the ones that you don't ask).

06-28-2001, 06:36 AM	#9
renaissance User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 58 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Newbie Question I have a 1940 "42" with Holster. There is a compartment in the Holster which contains a tool of some kind. I thought it was an aid to loading the magazine ( It works for that, slipping over the Mag riser button and enabling a good purchase for your thumb in compressing the spring > though I could never figure out why that would be necessary, the Mag is easy to load) Besides, the hole for the button and a ledge for your thumb, it has a single medium sized screwdriver blade (or pry bar?). Is this the "Takedown tool I hear about? If not what is the "takedown tool" My tool; has NO markings and is nicely blued. How can I tell if this is original?

06-28-2001, 09:43 AM	#10
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Newbie Question Yes, that is the takedown tool. The hole and thumb lever are designed for just what you describe. There are some mags that are a bear to load due to stronger springs. With the screwdriver tip you can remove the two grip screws and also remove the firing pin retainer and firing pin (be careful if you do this as it is under extreme spring pressure and, if not done carefully, could be really dangerous). The takedown tool usually resides in the little pouch in the top flap of the holster and can have either proof marks (actually acceptance marks) or none at all. The best way to tell if it is original is to compare it to one that is known to be real. There are many repros, they are cheap, but they don't seem to have the proper contour or shape. Many of the repros have phony acceptance marks stamped on them. An original tool goes for $25 to $120 depending on conditon and markings.