Vickers Luger problem

[TheRomanhistorian]

Hello all,

I just recently acquired a Vickers Luger which was pretty much all matching aside from an odd 6" barrrel with no numbers and similar finish and condition to the rest of the pistol (looks like an old refinish and overall rough Dutch Luger condition).

It functions fine and is a nice enough specimen considering how rarely I've seen them come up. However, I did notice on the front of the grip strap (mid-way) that the metal has thinned enough that you can see a 1mm x 2 mm sliver of silver which is the exterior of the magazine. Basically, it's like the grip thinned enough to make a small hole. It's not a huge problem for me in that I'd send it back (I hadn't planned on shooting this one much if it all and really wanted the Vickers as a way to bridge my Luger and Webley collections) but what type of repair can one do for something like this and how much will it ruin the collectible nature of this Dutch Luger?

I'll get photos after the 5 day wait period (no CPL).

Best,

Michael

[DavidJayUden]

Suppose there were, at one time, unit marks that someone decided needed to be ground off?
Regarding repair, seems like welding up and reshaping the strap is one option, cutting the strap away and splicing in another strap is the second option.
Now mind you I have no idea of the enhanced collectability of the Vickers Luger, but on the DWM/Erfurt/Mauser guns the rebarrel and refinish alone would pretty much kill the collectability. But let's hope a serious collector chimes in here saying that is not the case here.
Pictures, pictures and more pictures please, once the gun is out of limbo.
dju

[TheRomanhistorian]

Thanks David! One of these days I should just get my bloody CPL and then I wouldn't have to wait but, well, I just never seem to get around to it. It does have the brass plate soldered on so I'm not sure why the metal thinned so much and I see no grinding marks. I wonder if it was just a result of poor storage by the Dutch?

It's very odd, I've never really heard of something like this on a Luger (though all things are possible, I suppose). The refinish and rebarrel were suspected, by the dealer (a long-time Luger dealer) to be Dutch arsenal rather than some later 'Bubba' rework at least.

[Edward Tinker]

I have seen them like this when the stock lug was ground off and also from a unit marking ground off.

A Dutch should not have had a marking on the front strap. That is not where they were marked.

Dutch guns are found refinished, but in the Dutch indies. Just being refinished would lower the value.

See what the serial number is on frame, how upper marked, etc. in other words, is it a Dutch completely or just a frame or ?

[TheRomanhistorian]

Hi Ed,

Thanks. I'll handle it more thoroughly when I get it back into my hands (couldn't take the grips off at my FFL dealer as I didn't bring any tools). All the exterior numbers matched except for the barrel. I was able to break it down there and all the numbers on the inside seemed to match as well (it's possible I missed one).

I just wish I'd gotten photos when I was there but, in my rush to get down there, I forgot my camera (my phone is an antique as well). The brass plate was still attached (and 'is' of course, too). I forgot to take down the unit, I think it was MI ML 173 on the plate in two rows (173 is on the 2nd line). It looks like a quite old and rougher refinish, too. From my perspective, it looked (aside from the barrel) to be all Dutch with wood grips that looked a little rougher (not bad just not as nice as one of my WWI Luger grips).

On the occasions when you've seen it in these situations what causes that much wear (aside from the original grinding down)?

Best,

Michael

[Edward Tinker]

I can't imagine any normal wear that would do that... That much rust would be very obvious.

Could be a defect?

[TheRomanhistorian]

I checked for rust: a hint near the grip screws but that was it and the finish was maybe, at best, 50-60% overall. A cool pistol and I can't wait to show you all as I don't see affordable ones show up very often (mismatched or otherwise) and, like I said, fills in a niche in my collection.

It came with a nickel/steel tube wooden base magazine, too, not numbered to this gun.

I really appreciate all of your thoughts and help, everyone!

Ed, I also put up photos of a chrome/nickel-plated Luger I picked up. Wonder if it was a GI who did that after he returned home.

[lugerholsterrepair]

I am not aware of any Dutch requirement for a 6" barrel. Usually any replacement made by the Dutch was dated..? I would think the Dutch would have used a 4''. There are no Dutch 6" holsters I know of.

[TheRomanhistorian]

Thanks, Jerry. It stumped me as well but I can live with it not being an all matching collectible as that means it can live comfortably as a shooter on the rare occasions I'd shoot it. I couldn't find a single marking on the barrel, either. To be fair, the dealer and I discussed that aspect and he didn't say it was some original arsenal barrel so I knew what I was getting into at least!

I suppose it could be some 1940s GI bringback and someone tried to make their own Navy out of a Vickers Luger? Hopefully Vlim and any of the other Dutch Luger aficionados chime in (thanks to those who already have) as I normally prefer WWI Imperial Lugers and WWI Webleys. This is a little bit out of my area of expertise.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Michael..someone tried to make their own Navy out of a Vickers Luger? Barrel changes are relatively common. I just have doubts about it being a Dutch change. A Dutch/Vickers is on my short list of next acquisitions and I have a great deal of interest in them. They are fascinating with different features..Lots of cool accoutremon as well! If the barrel is the only change it's well worth having. Looking forward to your pics!

[TheRomanhistorian]

Jerry, I'm a bit impatient myself and hope the 'all clear' comes in sooner than expected as I'd like to get her here, stripped down, cleaned, oiled, and see how she looks. I figure, even if the barrel change wasn't Dutch, she'll still be a great conversation piece!

Best,

Michael

[TheRomanhistorian]

I put up a thread in the Early Lugers section but thought I'd share photos of the 'hole' here as well.

[1994Stoeger]

Could this possibly be poorly repaired shrapnel damage? And by "repair" I mean the metal was roughly bent back into place? Tough to tell from the pics.

[TheRomanhistorian]

It's a good question. I haven't a clue really as I saw no sign of that much corrosion/rust on the interior to suggest this is just rust. It's very strange but, at the same time, I don't know how easy this is to 'fix' and what it might do the condition of the gun as is. I don't know much about local gunsmiths who could deal with this (I have a local Webley guy and I believe there's a Luger guy down in Tacoma but don't know him personally).

I'll see if I can take better photos but I'm a curmudgeonly 33 year old who thinks, some days, he's either a 1910s Brit or a Roman! :P My digital camera is an old one from 2003 with an 8 MB memory card!