MP-40 restoration source??

Navy · 12-09-2005, 01:39 PM

All,

Am closing the deal on a C&R MP-40. Gun is really neat, but the tube has very little finish remaining. Anyone know anybody licensed and able to restore an MP-40 like Thor does Lugers?

Tom A

John Sabato · 12-12-2005, 09:41 AM

Tom, if my memory serves me correctly, (and it sometimes fails at this task) I think Jonathan Arthur Ciener does this type of restoration... The work I have seen him accomplish on M-16's is absolutely amazing...

Navy · 12-12-2005, 10:24 AM

Thanks John.

I thought Cierner was 100% suppressors and sub-caliber devices now...but will check into this.

Tom A

John Sabato · 12-12-2005, 02:52 PM

Tom, you might also check at subguns.com... the folks there should be able to guide you to someone who is currently doing restorations on Class 3 items. Tom Bowers is the honcho for that board.

P. J. Heck · 12-14-2005, 10:51 AM

Intersting situation.. As I understand, any licensed gunsmith can do this work FA or not.......... Can someone with an inside track shed any clarification on this???????

John Sabato · 12-14-2005, 11:09 AM

An "ordinary" Gunsmith CAN do this work, BUT only if the legal possessor (licensee) is physically present during the entire process, otherwise the gun must be legally transfered to the one doing the work... and that incurs the $200 tax unless they are a class 3 dealer or a Class 2 SOT.

stymie · 12-14-2005, 11:58 AM

BATFE's stance on the use of a Form 5 for repairs has changed as of 2000.

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.co...eratfform5.htm

NO Transfer tax is incurred!

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS
WASHINGTON, DC 20226
JAN 04 2000

901040:GS
5320/990519

Mr. XXXXXXX X. XXXXXXXX
XXXXX X.X. XXXXXX XXXXXX
XXXXXXX, XX XXXXX

Dear Mr. XXXXXXXX:
This is in response to your letter dated December 15, 1999 asking whether the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) requires an ATF Form 5 for the repair of a National Firearms Act (NFA) firearm.

We do not consider the conveyance of an NFA firearm for repair or gunsmithing to be a transfer as defined in the NFA. You may wish to refer to item 15 in the "Questions and Answers" section of ATF P 5300.4, Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide, for a discussion of this subject. An ATF Form 5 application is not required in this situation; however, we recommend that the repair or gunsmithing be documented in your records.

Should additional information be needed, please contact ATF Specialist Gary Schaible at (202) 927-8330.

Sincerely yours,

[signature]

Kent M Cousins
Chief, National Firearms Act Branch

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would have recommended John or Stan Andrewski dba "Stan's Gunsmithing" to do that type of restoration, but unfortunately they are backlogged at least two years on the Melton suppressed MK5 Sterling & LUSA smg projects. As John suggested, try over at subguns.com NFA Board for advice.

http://subguns.com/boards/mgmsg.cgi

Best Wishes for the Holidays!

John

John Sabato · 12-14-2005, 01:10 PM

Does this mean that since this firearm is C&R, and THOR is C&R Licensed that he could receive and restore this weapon and return it to Tom A without incurring the wrath of the BATFE? If, that can be substantiated, I think you have solved Tom's problem... providing that THOR would be willing to do this...

Navy · 12-14-2005, 01:46 PM

All,

Very interesting; very interesting indeed.

Tom A.

stymie · 12-14-2005, 02:45 PM

"One need not be an SOT to have NFA weapons transferred to him for
repair. One does need to have a type 01 FFL to work as a gunsmith
though."

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu...st/nfa_faq.txt

I don't believe that a type 03 C&R ONLY... will take the place of the type 01 DEALER/gunsmith FFL, however!

12-09-2005, 01:39 PM	#1
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	MP-40 restoration source?? All, Am closing the deal on a C&R MP-40. Gun is really neat, but the tube has very little finish remaining. Anyone know anybody licensed and able to restore an MP-40 like Thor does Lugers? Tom A

12-12-2005, 09:41 AM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Tom, if my memory serves me correctly, (and it sometimes fails at this task) I think Jonathan Arthur Ciener does this type of restoration... The work I have seen him accomplish on M-16's is absolutely amazing... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-12-2005, 02:52 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Tom, you might also check at subguns.com... the folks there should be able to guide you to someone who is currently doing restorations on Class 3 items. Tom Bowers is the honcho for that board. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-14-2005, 10:51 AM	#5
P. J. Heck User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Southeast Ohio Posts: 200 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Intersting situation.. As I understand, any licensed gunsmith can do this work FA or not.......... Can someone with an inside track shed any clarification on this??????? __________________ There are no bad guns!

12-14-2005, 11:09 AM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	An "ordinary" Gunsmith CAN do this work, BUT only if the legal possessor (licensee) is physically present during the entire process, otherwise the gun must be legally transfered to the one doing the work... and that incurs the $200 tax unless they are a class 3 dealer or a Class 2 SOT. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-12-2005, 10:24 AM	#3
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Thanks John. I thought Cierner was 100% suppressors and sub-caliber devices now...but will check into this. Tom A

12-14-2005, 11:58 AM	#7
stymie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: KC,MO USA Posts: 114 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	BATFE's stance on the use of a Form 5 for repairs has changed as of 2000. http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.co...eratfform5.htm NO Transfer tax is incurred! DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS WASHINGTON, DC 20226 JAN 04 2000 901040:GS 5320/990519 Mr. XXXXXXX X. XXXXXXXX XXXXX X.X. XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXXX, XX XXXXX Dear Mr. XXXXXXXX: This is in response to your letter dated December 15, 1999 asking whether the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) requires an ATF Form 5 for the repair of a National Firearms Act (NFA) firearm. We do not consider the conveyance of an NFA firearm for repair or gunsmithing to be a transfer as defined in the NFA. You may wish to refer to item 15 in the "Questions and Answers" section of ATF P 5300.4, Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide, for a discussion of this subject. An ATF Form 5 application is not required in this situation; however, we recommend that the repair or gunsmithing be documented in your records. Should additional information be needed, please contact ATF Specialist Gary Schaible at (202) 927-8330. Sincerely yours, [signature] Kent M Cousins Chief, National Firearms Act Branch --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would have recommended John or Stan Andrewski dba "Stan's Gunsmithing" to do that type of restoration, but unfortunately they are backlogged at least two years on the Melton suppressed MK5 Sterling & LUSA smg projects. As John suggested, try over at subguns.com NFA Board for advice. http://subguns.com/boards/mgmsg.cgi Best Wishes for the Holidays! John __________________ "Irony can be pretty ironic!"

12-14-2005, 01:10 PM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Does this mean that since this firearm is C&R, and THOR is C&R Licensed that he could receive and restore this weapon and return it to Tom A without incurring the wrath of the BATFE? If, that can be substantiated, I think you have solved Tom's problem... providing that THOR would be willing to do this... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-14-2005, 01:46 PM	#9
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	All, Very interesting; very interesting indeed. Tom A.

12-14-2005, 02:45 PM	#10
stymie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: KC,MO USA Posts: 114 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	"One need not be an SOT to have NFA weapons transferred to him for repair. One does need to have a type 01 FFL to work as a gunsmith though." http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu...st/nfa_faq.txt I don't believe that a type 03 C&R ONLY... will take the place of the type 01 DEALER/gunsmith FFL, however! __________________ "Irony can be pretty ironic!"