Failure %

Steinar · 06-24-2006, 05:21 AM

How about a little survey?

It could be interesting to know how often our Lugers jams in average.

Commercial Lugers compared to military Lugers, how artillery Lugers function compared to 4" and so on..

If anyone is interested in following up this thread, these are my estimated numbers;

byf 41 - 3% failure
byf 42 - 14% failure
DWM 1918 - 12% failure

navy shooter - 10% failure
(arty shooter - 100% (not working))

Have a nice day!

Heinz · 06-24-2006, 07:04 AM

DWM 1915
no "jams" in a couple of hunred rounds.

but, occasioanlly fails to **** on initial chambering of a round. Maybe me doing something wrong.

Has new GT modified MecGar magazine although I have had no problems the time or two I have used the original police furnished Haenel

Frank · 06-24-2006, 09:28 AM

Morgan, I shoot 3 Lugers (not at the same time). Each one has their own little quirks, but once the formula is known, they are very reliable!! I would say virtually no failures.

1917 DWM uses a standard WWI Magazine, but only likes Remington ammo. Also works well with a fxo Magazine and Remington ammo.

41 byf uses a fxo Magazine, but only likes Winchester ammo.

My Baby (reworked Bulgarian) uses a reworked after-market Magazine and only likes Winchester ammo. Initially, this pistol failed to **** after nearly every round. When I removed the excess oil from the trigger plate lever and firing pin and breech block, the failures decreased to zero or nearly zero. The Baby does not like Remington ammo!!!

I believe the ammo preference is a function of the cartridge OAL.

Dwight Gruber · 06-24-2006, 11:36 AM

9mm:
1936 S/42 virtually no failures in hundreds of rounds
estimated <0.1%

1917 LP-08 virtually no failures in hundreds of rounds
estimated <0.1%

commercial parts gun virtually no failures in hundreds of rounds
estimated <0.5%

1942 byf no failures when shot
estimated 0%

At the height of activity this represented several hundred rounds per month, circumstances have cut back my shooting.

Magazines used are almost all Mec Gar. I have used extruded Haenel mags without failure, and Triple-K work well but I don't like the reduced capacity. When I started shooting I did a series of magazine tests and virtually all of my original, crimped-steel magazines caused failures.

Winchester white box, S&B, Federal American Eagle, and CCL Blazer are consistently reliable without failure (115gr FMJ).

Remington UMC has consistent operational failures, nearly every round with any combination of gun and magazine. Speer Lawman has a high operational failure rate. All commercial handloads have a high operational failure rate. (115gr. FMJ)

.30 Luger
1900 American Eagle no failures when shot
estimated 0%

Alphabet Commercial many failures to fully cycle when shot
estimated >30%

1941 byf custom 10" rebarrel many failures to fully cycle when shot
estimated >30%

I shoot .30 very seldom (no longer have the Alphabet Commercial and byf). Mec Gar magazines exclusively. The only ammunition reliably available here is Fiocci, and it seems consistently underpowered to operate a modern Luger. It works my shooting-quality 1900AE just fine, but this gun has a relatively weaker flat recoil spring.

It is interesting to note that during my shooting session with the .30 long-barrel byf I opened a new box of Fiocci .30 and suddenly every shot functioned. I have to wonder if they have increased the performance of their cartridges?

--Dwight

Vlim · 06-24-2006, 01:12 PM

Hi,

1937 S/42, DDR Barrel, 1990's rebuild.
Estimated failure 0%

1913/1928 Dutch KNIL combo.
Estimated failure <10%
Magazine is slightly worn, bullets sometimes 'stick'. Likes 115 gr better than 124 gr.

1917 Arty.
Estimated failure <10%
Took some time to find the right mag for this one, amazingly a DDR 1001 mag works great.

1972 Mauser Parabellum in .30 luger.
Estimated failure <5%
This pistol had to break in after spending 30 years in a box. Fiocchi .30 luger is a bit unreliable, pistol functions perfectly.

Pre-1914 Mauser C/96.
Estimated failure <1%
Ammo was 60 years old, occassional misfire.

All-in-all, if you get the right pistol/mag/ammo combination figured out, they're very reliable. Ammo of choice is 9mm Sellier & Bellot 124 grain for the 9mm pistol. Not much choice in the .30 luger departement, as I can only get Fiocchi. C/96 ammo of choice is the Russian surplus Interarms stuff of the 1960s (black plastic boxes). Smells like crap, corrosive primers so lots of cleaning, but still works fine.

Clyde from Carolina · 08-10-2006, 09:45 AM

My only shooting experience- so far!- with a P.08 is my friend's 1937 S/42. We shot it last month with a mis-matched magazine( don't recall the magazine ) and white box Winchester ammo.

Fired approximately 50-100 rounds with several of us shooting. No failures of any kind, except the toggle would not lock back on an empty mag.

I was very impressed with the guns accuracy and reliability. That and the overall "neat" factor is the reason I am surfing this site again :-)

unspellable · 08-17-2006, 12:02 PM

I'm not sure this means much given today's ammo is out of spec and we are dealing with old guns, old magazines, possibly out of spec recoil springs, etc.

How ever, I will say that in my youth I had a 1920 commercial in 7.65 that never had a single malfunction in the entire time I owned it over several years. Now the kicker. This wasn't just with factory ball loads, this was with factory ball loads, and handloads using lead semi-wadcutters and full wadcutters as well! The full wadcutters were not seated flush with the case mouth.

I ended up trading it off on a S&W M29 in the days when the M29s were made out of unobtanium. I still have that M29. The trade required some cash at a time when I had very little cash but did have an understanding wife.

Stevie · 08-27-2006, 02:28 PM

My Frankenstien Mauser 42/42 hardly ever jams. With proper mags, I would say close to 100% reliable.

My DWM has been a jam-o-matic. Worked and worked on it. Finelly have found a combination of Wolff mainspring and FXO mags that have reduced jams to virtually nil.

Had to put a percentage on the jamming for the DWM. High probability at first, works pretty decent now. No jams in a couple hundred shots probably. The Mauser is about as reliable as any 9mm pistol.

Sieger · 08-28-2006, 02:35 AM

Hi:

Porsche Pistole requires regular tuneups:

Without proper springs and magazine, expect your Luger to be a nightmare.

With proper springs, magazine and ammo, expect perfect function.

Light parts that are heavily sprung cause an extra sensitive system.

Sieger

06-24-2006, 05:21 AM	#1
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	Failure % How about a little survey? It could be interesting to know how often our Lugers jams in average. Commercial Lugers compared to military Lugers, how artillery Lugers function compared to 4" and so on.. If anyone is interested in following up this thread, these are my estimated numbers; byf 41 - 3% failure byf 42 - 14% failure DWM 1918 - 12% failure navy shooter - 10% failure (arty shooter - 100% (not working)) Have a nice day! __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

08-28-2006, 02:35 AM	#9
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	% Failure Hi: Porsche Pistole requires regular tuneups: Without proper springs and magazine, expect your Luger to be a nightmare. With proper springs, magazine and ammo, expect perfect function. Light parts that are heavily sprung cause an extra sensitive system. Sieger

06-24-2006, 07:04 AM	#2
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	DWM 1915 no "jams" in a couple of hunred rounds. but, occasioanlly fails to **** on initial chambering of a round. Maybe me doing something wrong. Has new GT modified MecGar magazine although I have had no problems the time or two I have used the original police furnished Haenel

06-24-2006, 09:28 AM	#3
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Morgan, I shoot 3 Lugers (not at the same time). Each one has their own little quirks, but once the formula is known, they are very reliable!! I would say virtually no failures. 1917 DWM uses a standard WWI Magazine, but only likes Remington ammo. Also works well with a fxo Magazine and Remington ammo. 41 byf uses a fxo Magazine, but only likes Winchester ammo. My Baby (reworked Bulgarian) uses a reworked after-market Magazine and only likes Winchester ammo. Initially, this pistol failed to **** after nearly every round. When I removed the excess oil from the trigger plate lever and firing pin and breech block, the failures decreased to zero or nearly zero. The Baby does not like Remington ammo!!! I believe the ammo preference is a function of the cartridge OAL.

06-24-2006, 11:36 AM	#4
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	9mm: 1936 S/42 virtually no failures in hundreds of rounds estimated <0.1% 1917 LP-08 virtually no failures in hundreds of rounds estimated <0.1% commercial parts gun virtually no failures in hundreds of rounds estimated <0.5% 1942 byf no failures when shot estimated 0% At the height of activity this represented several hundred rounds per month, circumstances have cut back my shooting. Magazines used are almost all Mec Gar. I have used extruded Haenel mags without failure, and Triple-K work well but I don't like the reduced capacity. When I started shooting I did a series of magazine tests and virtually all of my original, crimped-steel magazines caused failures. Winchester white box, S&B, Federal American Eagle, and CCL Blazer are consistently reliable without failure (115gr FMJ). Remington UMC has consistent operational failures, nearly every round with any combination of gun and magazine. Speer Lawman has a high operational failure rate. All commercial handloads have a high operational failure rate. (115gr. FMJ) .30 Luger 1900 American Eagle no failures when shot estimated 0% Alphabet Commercial many failures to fully cycle when shot estimated >30% 1941 byf custom 10" rebarrel many failures to fully cycle when shot estimated >30% I shoot .30 very seldom (no longer have the Alphabet Commercial and byf). Mec Gar magazines exclusively. The only ammunition reliably available here is Fiocci, and it seems consistently underpowered to operate a modern Luger. It works my shooting-quality 1900AE just fine, but this gun has a relatively weaker flat recoil spring. It is interesting to note that during my shooting session with the .30 long-barrel byf I opened a new box of Fiocci .30 and suddenly every shot functioned. I have to wonder if they have increased the performance of their cartridges? --Dwight

06-24-2006, 01:12 PM	#5
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,043 Thanks: 1,032 Thanked 3,930 Times in 1,194 Posts	Hi, 1937 S/42, DDR Barrel, 1990's rebuild. Estimated failure 0% 1913/1928 Dutch KNIL combo. Estimated failure <10% Magazine is slightly worn, bullets sometimes 'stick'. Likes 115 gr better than 124 gr. 1917 Arty. Estimated failure <10% Took some time to find the right mag for this one, amazingly a DDR 1001 mag works great. 1972 Mauser Parabellum in .30 luger. Estimated failure <5% This pistol had to break in after spending 30 years in a box. Fiocchi .30 luger is a bit unreliable, pistol functions perfectly. Pre-1914 Mauser C/96. Estimated failure <1% Ammo was 60 years old, occassional misfire. All-in-all, if you get the right pistol/mag/ammo combination figured out, they're very reliable. Ammo of choice is 9mm Sellier & Bellot 124 grain for the 9mm pistol. Not much choice in the .30 luger departement, as I can only get Fiocchi. C/96 ammo of choice is the Russian surplus Interarms stuff of the 1960s (black plastic boxes). Smells like crap, corrosive primers so lots of cleaning, but still works fine.

08-10-2006, 09:45 AM	#6
Clyde from Carolina User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My only shooting experience- so far!- with a P.08 is my friend's 1937 S/42. We shot it last month with a mis-matched magazine( don't recall the magazine ) and white box Winchester ammo. Fired approximately 50-100 rounds with several of us shooting. No failures of any kind, except the toggle would not lock back on an empty mag. I was very impressed with the guns accuracy and reliability. That and the overall "neat" factor is the reason I am surfing this site again :-)

08-17-2006, 12:02 PM	#7
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	I'm not sure this means much given today's ammo is out of spec and we are dealing with old guns, old magazines, possibly out of spec recoil springs, etc. How ever, I will say that in my youth I had a 1920 commercial in 7.65 that never had a single malfunction in the entire time I owned it over several years. Now the kicker. This wasn't just with factory ball loads, this was with factory ball loads, and handloads using lead semi-wadcutters and full wadcutters as well! The full wadcutters were not seated flush with the case mouth. I ended up trading it off on a S&W M29 in the days when the M29s were made out of unobtanium. I still have that M29. The trade required some cash at a time when I had very little cash but did have an understanding wife.

08-27-2006, 02:28 PM	#8
Stevie User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ok. Posts: 212 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My Frankenstien Mauser 42/42 hardly ever jams. With proper mags, I would say close to 100% reliable. My DWM has been a jam-o-matic. Worked and worked on it. Finelly have found a combination of Wolff mainspring and FXO mags that have reduced jams to virtually nil. Had to put a percentage on the jamming for the DWM. High probability at first, works pretty decent now. No jams in a couple hundred shots probably. The Mauser is about as reliable as any 9mm pistol.