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Unread 08-17-2016, 10:50 PM   #1
tpellenb
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Default Seeking Artillery

Hi All,

So I'm a long time admirer and relatively new P08 owner. Got the itch about a month ago when visiting a local shop. The guys there cater in fine firearms and happened to have a few decent examples. I was in love the second I saw mine in the flesh. Mauser 1936, S/42 all matching #'s (except mag) and 90-95% condition. Can't lie, I'm obsessed. They're sublimely constructed and ergonomically impeccable. Have determined I'll own at least a couple in my lifetime.

In fact I'm more than a little interested in buying another relatively soon. This brings me here. I'm very sure I'd like my next gun to be an Artillery. Bought Luger Tips and have been studying forums and other information. Feel I've got a pretty good handle on the basics of the artillery. Having said this I'm here soliciting advice. Obviously don't want to go broke but am wondering what I should expect for $2000-3000 range. Naturally I'd like matching parts on an original gun, with or without matching mag, and 90+% finish with sound mechanicals. I intend to shoot this gun but treat it like it'll never be shot.

My local shop is sitting on a number of these but cannot sell until they receive permission from the spouse of the departed owner. This has proven difficult. I've investigated the guns and they're mint. Shop staff are keeping me in mind but I doubt they'll be at my price point when released. No problems bringing another into the shop though.

Best regards,

Tim
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Unread 08-17-2016, 11:13 PM   #2
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Where in Wilmington do you live Tim? That's where I lived before I moved to Kennett
Wayne
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Unread 08-17-2016, 11:43 PM   #3
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I'd think that $2k to $3k should get you a very nice matching original gun, although probably not a particularly rare one. The holster, stock, and accessories will push that price up pretty fast, however.
Just don't jump at the first one you see, but take time to study and watch the market. Watch the on line gun auctions, Simpson, Ltd, etc.
Welcome aboard!
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Unread 08-18-2016, 08:01 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayne8661 View Post
Where in Wilmington do you live Tim? That's where I lived before I moved to Kennett
Wayne
Wayne - I lived in trolley square for several years and am now in midtown Brandywine. How about you? The shop I was referring to is Artemis Outfitters.

DJU - not sure I need anything exotic. Just a nice matching gun. Might ultimately build a rig out of it, but that's long term. I'm not normally one to rush into a thing, but lately I've found myself tempering the need for immediate gratitude. I'm familiar with Simpson. Have considered ordering a k-31 from them in the past.

Question, were artillery guns emmer numbered in the commercial fashion?
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Unread 08-18-2016, 09:26 AM   #5
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[QUOTE=tpellenb

Question, were artillery guns ever numbered in the commercial fashion?[/QUOTE]


No.

Last edited by George Anderson; 08-22-2016 at 08:07 PM.
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Unread 08-18-2016, 09:42 AM   #6
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George,

I wish to disagree. Commercial artillery lugers were numbered in the commercial fashion. An example is for sale on Joe Salter's website.
https://www.joesalter.com/category/p...ger-by-DWM-9mm
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Unread 08-18-2016, 11:10 AM   #7
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Those "commrecial artilleries" are cobbled together from parts during the post war era.
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Unread 08-18-2016, 12:17 PM   #8
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But that would still count as an artillery correct? It's not some scam Frankengun built decades later, rather it was assembled relatively soon after the war by a commercial manufacturer and would have hidden #'s.
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Unread 08-18-2016, 01:23 PM   #9
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The post war commercial lugers may have employed surplus parts but they are more than frankenguns. Note that the receiver is marked "safe" and the extractor is marked "loaded" for the American market. Also note the commercial style marking and the lack of military proofs.
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Unread 08-18-2016, 04:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpellenb View Post
But that would still count as an artillery correct? It's not some scam Frankengun built decades later, rather it was assembled relatively soon after the war by a commercial manufacturer and would have hidden #'s.
Well,
they are some kind of "artillery"; but one could call them a "Frankengun", just made in the 1920's not in the 1970's.

Depends on your view point; they could have most any number of combinations of numbering or no numbers. JMHO.
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Unread 08-19-2016, 08:56 AM   #11
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A couple questions for everyone...

1.) What should make me suspicious? It's sometimes difficult to judge a gun through online auction photos, which I suppose is a red flag in of itself. Aside from mismatching blue or straw, the near perfection of blue, lack of detail, scrutiny of proofs, etc., what are some things I should look for or be on the lookout for?

2.) Similarly, If you had to describe a unique, rare, or valuable feature what would it be? I'm referring to anything which might subtly render an ordinary gun extraordinary.

Not a spring chicken, but not advanced either. Why the advice is appreciated.

Thanks guys,

Tim
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Unread 08-19-2016, 09:33 AM   #12
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Experience and handling many, many examples are the only true school for evaluating a firearm.

That being said, I look for sharp, well defined edges on all surfaces. Well fitting grips with no overlap, no shortness and no slop. As you mention, crisp and well defined markings. Proper overall wear and finish colors.

Short of visiting an extensive collection with someone who has profound knowledge of the subject, I would purchase as many books as you can afford.
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Unread 08-19-2016, 11:06 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanint View Post
I would purchase as many books as you can afford.
I bought my first Luger in April 2016 for $1200. By June I bought about $700 in Luger reference books.

Tim, my advice (from a fellow Noobie) is to read and study the forum's FAQ first to get started. It's free.
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Unread 08-19-2016, 02:05 PM   #14
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Regarding your second question, certain models are rare, such as the 1914 Erfurt artilleries, etc, while other guns are deemed rare by just a marking or number. While I don't run away from Lugers with a rare marking, or a matching mag, etc, I never pay a premium for it either. The rationale being that those are the most likely boosted guns out there, and quite honestly I doubt that I could tell a boosted one from an original. But if I don't throw stupid money at it for that marking, who cares? Case in point the deaths' head markings. Interesting, but sssssoooooo controversial.
Overall experience will help you ID deficiencies. The number of years of experience directly correlates with the % of red flags detected, however we've probably all been disappointed at one time or another.
And internet or long distance sales have a higher incidence of disappointment than close-up, hands-on examination. At the very least demand a 3 day non-firing exam period, and share your concerns here.
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Unread 08-19-2016, 02:44 PM   #15
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The gun advertised as a Commercial Artillery at Joe Salter - https://www.joesalter.com/category/p...ger-by-DWM-9mm - falls right in the middle of the 2,000 gun .30 cal Safe/Loaded range. Without a matching number on the barrel, I would have to agree with George and think that it was a standard .30 cal S/L gun with the barrel replaced later.
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Unread 08-19-2016, 08:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecoast View Post
The gun advertised as a Commercial Artillery at Joe Salter - https://www.joesalter.com/category/p...ger-by-DWM-9mm - falls right in the middle of the 2,000 gun .30 cal Safe/Loaded range. Without a matching number on the barrel, I would have to agree with George and think that it was a standard .30 cal S/L gun with the barrel replaced later.
I'm having trouble seeing the little notch on the top, front of the receiver. It may or may not be there?

5 digit serial number on the frame, so made before that system was abandoned for commercial guns. And this is another 'Mixmaster", so I think it is a bit pricey.
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Unread 08-20-2016, 05:10 PM   #17
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It's a fun game playing spot the "fake". Enjoyable to scrutinize photos and see blatant red flags. Case in point all straw items on this GB post are blued.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2P0tUV1Cvs&app=desktop
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Unread 08-20-2016, 05:55 PM   #18
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Alright so talk to me about this...

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...ducts_id=49159
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Unread 08-20-2016, 07:10 PM   #19
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Going to well known and trusted sites is your best bet. Simpson, LTD is a good choice.

I did not go to look at the gun you mention, but overall, although sometimes more expensive, Simpson has a good reputation.

I think you need to decide if you want a war time artillery or a long barrel post war luger....
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Unread 08-20-2016, 07:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Alright so talk to me about this...

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...ducts_id=49159

A good one to stay away from.
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