41 banner: value?

12-27-2001, 12:08 PM

There is a 41 banner police Eagle/L luger for sale locally with its Fischer 41 holster, extra mag and an E/135 tool. The mags are fxo's--one is blank but the other has a lightly stamped 4-digit number on the bottom that does not match the pistol.

Did the banner police lugers have serial numbers stamped in the plastic? What do these 41 banners sell for nowadays? THis one has no sear safety but is in exc condition at over 95% blue. The seller wants about $2000.

dA

bill m · 12-27-2001, 02:50 PM

Hi,

A 41 two digit Banner with the police Eagle L stamp is extremely had to find. First, you must make sure of what it is. These guns are only found in the low serial Y suffix range (3 digit). They can have all blued parts or have strawed small parts. The Eagle L should be on the right receiver and there should be no other proofs on that side, and then an Eagle N on the front sight block, the left receiver, and the breech.

These guns are highly faked as they use a 41 byf receiver and add the Banner toggle. If the Luger has 135 or 655 proofs on the right receiver, I'd look it over very closely. There is a question as to the black plastic bases ever being numbered. There are a few with a serial number on them and some think these are KU magazines. Some think they did number a very few for the byf 41 and 42 Lugers and then stopped. As far as I know there is no documentation to support this. The numbers are burned and not stamped and are fairly large in size. I had a matching pair one time -- 1101 and 1101+ that I sold. I think they may have been to a KU Luger 1101 as it is listed in Gibson's book, the Krieghoff Parabellum, and I called him trying to hunt it down, but with no luck. If anyone knows where this gun is, I know were the magazines are.

12-27-2001, 04:18 PM

thanks for the information and commments. i am away from my reference books this week and needed the input. this gun has the 2-digit date AND E/L only on the right of receiver (plus E/N on left). So far, so good. Unfortunately, it has a four digit s/n if I recall correctly (though it is in the proper suffix block--y). The numbered mag is somewhere around 1X09 serial number (don't recall second digit) but the digits are small in size, not large. The gun serial number is 4X49y (that is all of the number I can remember). The rig has an E/135 tool with it so I assume that is incorrect. How many 2-digit 41 banners were made? Were any made w/o a sear safety?

Thanks,

dave

bill m · 12-27-2001, 04:38 PM

Hi,

The 41 Banner Police Lugers that I know of are: 511y, 577y, 688y, 775y, 799y, 1048y, and 1221y. These are Eagle L stamped on the left receiver. I have never seen one WITH a sear safety. 4x49y is in the middle of the 1942 Banner Police production run. This does not mean that it is not possible that this Luger is a correct 41 two digit police, but it is way out of the known examples.

bill m · 12-27-2001, 04:43 PM

Lonnie Zimmerman · 12-27-2001, 05:37 PM

About 500 of these were made in the serial range of 619y-122ly, MOST without sear safety.

Lonnie

bill m · 12-27-2001, 05:59 PM

Hi Lonnie,

I know the books all say approximately 500 of these were made, but from the known examples I'd say there were a lot less than 500. Banners have a high survival rate and for only a handful (somewhere around 10) would indicate a lot less than 500. Interesting point of all the 41 and 42 two digit Lugers is that the ones that have a matching magazine seem to be police marked with a 1 or 2, which would indicate that the police obtained these. Interesting to me as to why the four digit 1941 and 1942 Banner police have the Eagle L and almost none of the two digits have the police E/L stamp. I think almost all of these two digit Lugers ended up in the police, but are not marked other than the magazines.

Lonnie Zimmerman · 12-27-2001, 07:15 PM

Bill, you are right. They certainly don"t seem to have the survival rate of the Spandau Lugers of WW1.Questions like this make collecting interesting, to say the least!

Lonnie

Doug · 12-27-2001, 11:56 PM

Price is OK, but I bought a 98% 42 banner E/L police with holster and two matching mags for $2000 last month.

12-28-2001, 01:01 AM

Thanks, everyone, for the input. The pistol looks good (in dim light) but it remains a mystery why the s/n is so far from the known range. The E/L with 41 date receiver should have a lower s/n frame. The magazines are not orig to the luger, I am pretty sure of that. The same goes for the tool. It might very well be a cobbled together rig and the pistol itself might be suspect.

dave

Marvin · 12-28-2001, 09:37 AM

Bill,

I sure do appreciate your statement on the numbering of the plastic bottom magazines! I had wondered if the numbers were "burned" or "stamped" into the plastic. I thought they would have been "burned" in because thge stamping may have cracked the plastic. I have never seen one of the original "KU" magazines with the matching mag. My "KU" has a mismatched magazine. Thanks again for the info.

Marvin

12-27-2001, 12:08 PM	#1
mlm Guest Posts: n/a	41 banner: value? There is a 41 banner police Eagle/L luger for sale locally with its Fischer 41 holster, extra mag and an E/135 tool. The mags are fxo's--one is blank but the other has a lightly stamped 4-digit number on the bottom that does not match the pistol. Did the banner police lugers have serial numbers stamped in the plastic? What do these 41 banners sell for nowadays? THis one has no sear safety but is in exc condition at over 95% blue. The seller wants about $2000. dA

12-27-2001, 02:50 PM	#2
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 41 banner: value? Hi, A 41 two digit Banner with the police Eagle L stamp is extremely had to find. First, you must make sure of what it is. These guns are only found in the low serial Y suffix range (3 digit). They can have all blued parts or have strawed small parts. The Eagle L should be on the right receiver and there should be no other proofs on that side, and then an Eagle N on the front sight block, the left receiver, and the breech. These guns are highly faked as they use a 41 byf receiver and add the Banner toggle. If the Luger has 135 or 655 proofs on the right receiver, I'd look it over very closely. There is a question as to the black plastic bases ever being numbered. There are a few with a serial number on them and some think these are KU magazines. Some think they did number a very few for the byf 41 and 42 Lugers and then stopped. As far as I know there is no documentation to support this. The numbers are burned and not stamped and are fairly large in size. I had a matching pair one time -- 1101 and 1101+ that I sold. I think they may have been to a KU Luger 1101 as it is listed in Gibson's book, the Krieghoff Parabellum, and I called him trying to hunt it down, but with no luck. If anyone knows where this gun is, I know were the magazines are.

12-27-2001, 04:18 PM	#3
mlm Guest Posts: n/a	Re: 41 banner: value? thanks for the information and commments. i am away from my reference books this week and needed the input. this gun has the 2-digit date AND E/L only on the right of receiver (plus E/N on left). So far, so good. Unfortunately, it has a four digit s/n if I recall correctly (though it is in the proper suffix block--y). The numbered mag is somewhere around 1X09 serial number (don't recall second digit) but the digits are small in size, not large. The gun serial number is 4X49y (that is all of the number I can remember). The rig has an E/135 tool with it so I assume that is incorrect. How many 2-digit 41 banners were made? Were any made w/o a sear safety? Thanks, dave

12-27-2001, 04:38 PM	#4
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 41 banner: value? Hi, The 41 Banner Police Lugers that I know of are: 511y, 577y, 688y, 775y, 799y, 1048y, and 1221y. These are Eagle L stamped on the left receiver. I have never seen one WITH a sear safety. 4x49y is in the middle of the 1942 Banner Police production run. This does not mean that it is not possible that this Luger is a correct 41 two digit police, but it is way out of the known examples.

12-27-2001, 04:43 PM	#5
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	E/L on Right Side Receiver (EOM)

12-27-2001, 05:37 PM	#6
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: 41 banner: value? About 500 of these were made in the serial range of 619y-122ly, MOST without sear safety. Lonnie

12-27-2001, 05:59 PM	#7
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 41 banner: value? Hi Lonnie, I know the books all say approximately 500 of these were made, but from the known examples I'd say there were a lot less than 500. Banners have a high survival rate and for only a handful (somewhere around 10) would indicate a lot less than 500. Interesting point of all the 41 and 42 two digit Lugers is that the ones that have a matching magazine seem to be police marked with a 1 or 2, which would indicate that the police obtained these. Interesting to me as to why the four digit 1941 and 1942 Banner police have the Eagle L and almost none of the two digits have the police E/L stamp. I think almost all of these two digit Lugers ended up in the police, but are not marked other than the magazines.

12-27-2001, 07:15 PM	#8
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: E/L on Right Side Receiver Bill, you are right. They certainly don"t seem to have the survival rate of the Spandau Lugers of WW1.Questions like this make collecting interesting, to say the least! Lonnie

12-27-2001, 11:56 PM	#9
Doug User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: USA Posts: 168 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 41 banner: value? Price is OK, but I bought a 98% 42 banner E/L police with holster and two matching mags for $2000 last month.

12-28-2001, 01:01 AM	#10
mlm Guest Posts: n/a	Re: 41 banner: value? Thanks, everyone, for the input. The pistol looks good (in dim light) but it remains a mystery why the s/n is so far from the known range. The E/L with 41 date receiver should have a lower s/n frame. The magazines are not orig to the luger, I am pretty sure of that. The same goes for the tool. It might very well be a cobbled together rig and the pistol itself might be suspect. dave

12-28-2001, 09:37 AM	#11
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 41 banner: value? Bill, I sure do appreciate your statement on the numbering of the plastic bottom magazines! I had wondered if the numbers were "burned" or "stamped" into the plastic. I thought they would have been "burned" in because thge stamping may have cracked the plastic. I have never seen one of the original "KU" magazines with the matching mag. My "KU" has a mismatched magazine. Thanks again for the info. Marvin