NAVY MAG UNMARKED BOTTOM ?

WW2 COLLECTOR · 12-27-2002, 01:54 AM

RECENTLY ACQUIRED A NAVY MAG WITH CONCENTRIC CIRCLES ; BUT, THE BOTTOM IS UNMARKED. NO NUMBERS OR CROWN M. IS THIS ORIG. OR CAN BE FAKE. WOOD BOTTOM LOOKS ORIGINAL. THANKS FOR REPLY.

Edward Tinker · 12-27-2002, 02:00 AM

Yes, they can and are faked.

If you can provide several pictures of the magazine body, the ends, etc., then others can tell if it is a repro or not. Magazines changed over the years, but there are certain characteristics they have.

Plus, are there any proofs or markings on the body of the magazine? No markings would indicate (to me) that it is not a real navy.

I have moved this over to the Navy section for hopefully more responses.

Ed

G.T. · 12-29-2002, 09:46 AM

Hello WWII collector! Anything collectable, or just about anything in general, can be faked! This deception is done with varying degrees of workmanship and quality...and is usually enhanced with a plausable story (lie) to enhance the the objects desirability! This goes on at gun shows all the time, most of the time, it is phoney stories about real stuff, but sometimes it is phoney stories about fakes and copys of desirable items! A lot of people who collect items only have two catagories in which they classify items, that is original, and reproduction... They spend a lot of time and money, on trips, books, and shows, to acquire the knowledge to decern the difference! They have for the most part, protected themselves with their knowledge...
In reality, there are more then two catagories in which objects built to the same specifications, over different periods of time can be classified! 1) of course, being the original part, built and utilized in the application and time frame it was designed for... it will usually carry the markings that relate to this time period and variation... 2) original parts, subsequently used for spares and repair, un-used store's and stock which probably still exsist even today! 3) Factory reproduction, here's where it gets tricky.. the only true reproduction of an item can be undertaken by a factory that originally produced that item in the first place, using the same tools, techniques and materials as used in the original production run, hence the term re-production 4) Replica, all other attempts to fabricate or create an already exsisting part, whether a single part, or many parts! Now there are varying degrees of replica quality, and they are made for many reasons, over a period that could span the whole life of the known part.. the best example (A) would be a part that is made to fill a contract, in which the original manufacture of that part, no longer exsists! (B) the next type would be a replica part made by another manufacture, as a spare or replacement part for a known high mortality part, and has nothing in common with the original other then appearance! (C) the next would be sub-quality parts, made simply to cash in on the need of the consumer to purchase replacement parts, and usually he gets what he pays for! (D) This last catigory is the one that causes all the grief for collectors, and that is anyone who takes any of the above, and alters it, with fake markings and numbers, and/or (this is the real important part)enhances the sale with false information in order to realize a greater profit, is guilty of fakery and fraud! BTW, I have probably made several hundred, maybe even a thousand, replica P.08 navy bottoms, you need to look at a lot of them before you can tell the difference! Better get busy! Best to you in the future! till....later....G.T. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

wterrell · 12-29-2002, 09:55 AM

And G.T.'s replica P08 bottoms are not shabby!

Navy · 12-29-2002, 04:16 PM

Should anyone need REAL Navy mags, I have a few extra, some unnumbered, a few marked 9MM and some numbered. All guaranteed authentic. Contact me off list if interested.

Tom A

G.T. · 12-29-2002, 09:37 PM

Thanks Wes! Till...later...G.T. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

Big Norm · 01-02-2003, 02:12 AM

Tom A,
what would be appropriate for a 1906 commercial navy, an unmarked, marked 9mm or a flaming bomb?
Big Norm

Navy · 01-02-2003, 05:57 AM

Hi Norm,

For the commercial guns, you should have one that is marked in cursive "Cal 9mm" or "9 mm" Marking should be along long axis of the wooden plug. For the commercial guns that were assembled after the war for export to the US, should have small "Germany" stamp same pisition.

Tom A.

12-27-2002, 01:54 AM	#1
WW2 COLLECTOR New User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: LOUISIANA Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	NAVY MAG UNMARKED BOTTOM ? RECENTLY ACQUIRED A NAVY MAG WITH CONCENTRIC CIRCLES ; BUT, THE BOTTOM IS UNMARKED. NO NUMBERS OR CROWN M. IS THIS ORIG. OR CAN BE FAKE. WOOD BOTTOM LOOKS ORIGINAL. THANKS FOR REPLY.

12-27-2002, 02:00 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,911 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	Yes, they can and are faked. If you can provide several pictures of the magazine body, the ends, etc., then others can tell if it is a repro or not. Magazines changed over the years, but there are certain characteristics they have. Plus, are there any proofs or markings on the body of the magazine? No markings would indicate (to me) that it is not a real navy. I have moved this over to the Navy section for hopefully more responses. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-29-2002, 09:55 AM	#4
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	And G.T.'s replica P08 bottoms are not shabby! __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

12-29-2002, 09:46 AM	#3
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,486 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,582 Times in 989 Posts	Hello WWII collector! Anything collectable, or just about anything in general, can be faked! This deception is done with varying degrees of workmanship and quality...and is usually enhanced with a plausable story (lie) to enhance the the objects desirability! This goes on at gun shows all the time, most of the time, it is phoney stories about real stuff, but sometimes it is phoney stories about fakes and copys of desirable items! A lot of people who collect items only have two catagories in which they classify items, that is original, and reproduction... They spend a lot of time and money, on trips, books, and shows, to acquire the knowledge to decern the difference! They have for the most part, protected themselves with their knowledge... In reality, there are more then two catagories in which objects built to the same specifications, over different periods of time can be classified! 1) of course, being the original part, built and utilized in the application and time frame it was designed for... it will usually carry the markings that relate to this time period and variation... 2) original parts, subsequently used for spares and repair, un-used store's and stock which probably still exsist even today! 3) Factory reproduction, here's where it gets tricky.. the only true reproduction of an item can be undertaken by a factory that originally produced that item in the first place, using the same tools, techniques and materials as used in the original production run, hence the term re-production 4) Replica, all other attempts to fabricate or create an already exsisting part, whether a single part, or many parts! Now there are varying degrees of replica quality, and they are made for many reasons, over a period that could span the whole life of the known part.. the best example (A) would be a part that is made to fill a contract, in which the original manufacture of that part, no longer exsists! (B) the next type would be a replica part made by another manufacture, as a spare or replacement part for a known high mortality part, and has nothing in common with the original other then appearance! (C) the next would be sub-quality parts, made simply to cash in on the need of the consumer to purchase replacement parts, and usually he gets what he pays for! (D) This last catigory is the one that causes all the grief for collectors, and that is anyone who takes any of the above, and alters it, with fake markings and numbers, and/or (this is the real important part)enhances the sale with false information in order to realize a greater profit, is guilty of fakery and fraud! BTW, I have probably made several hundred, maybe even a thousand, replica P.08 navy bottoms, you need to look at a lot of them before you can tell the difference! Better get busy! Best to you in the future! till....later....G.T. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

12-29-2002, 04:16 PM	#5
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Should anyone need REAL Navy mags, I have a few extra, some unnumbered, a few marked 9MM and some numbered. All guaranteed authentic. Contact me off list if interested. Tom A

12-29-2002, 09:37 PM	#6
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,486 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,582 Times in 989 Posts	Thanks Wes! Till...later...G.T. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

01-02-2003, 02:12 AM	#7
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Tom A, what would be appropriate for a 1906 commercial navy, an unmarked, marked 9mm or a flaming bomb? Big Norm

01-02-2003, 05:57 AM	#8
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Hi Norm, For the commercial guns, you should have one that is marked in cursive "Cal 9mm" or "9 mm" Marking should be along long axis of the wooden plug. For the commercial guns that were assembled after the war for export to the US, should have small "Germany" stamp same pisition. Tom A.