Luger serial numbered barrels

ekim99 · 01-03-2012, 08:21 PM

I am going through a 12 gun collection of luger's, inherited by a family friend, to value them. They are all in beautiful shape, very good to excellent. I have run in to a question on the serial numbers. Nine of the guns have all matching numbers, everywhere they should be, even the clips. But three of the guns have all matching numbers except the barrels, which have no number at all, except a very tiny, tiny number that looks like it would be a part number. Does that mean the barrels have been replaced, if so how does that affect the value? I would appreciate any input.
Thank
Mike

mrerick · 01-03-2012, 09:27 PM

Hi Mike,

Welcome to the forum.

Collectors value Lugers highly if they are as close to original manufactured state as possible.

My military and commercial Lugers all have serial numbered barrels. I don't have my reference materials here to check and see if there were pistols normally manufactured without them.

There are some very rare ones ("lunch box specials") that were made without proper markings. There may be others that were normally manufactured without barrels being numbered.

As with most questions, pictures will help with identification and a detailed answer. Can you post some. Try taking them without using a flash in indirect light with a tripod to keep things steady and in focus.

Many barrels were marked with a number that indicated the barrel gauge (measurement). Numbers like 8.82 ...

Something in "good shape" may have been reworked or re-finished at some point. That often will reduce their value considerably. This isn't always the case (for example, Swiss Lugers that were reworked by the Swiss Arsenal when decommissioned).

You can get an idea of the retail valuation of Lugers at sites like simpsonltd.com or checkpointcharlies.com ...

Marc

Jan C Still · 01-03-2012, 09:55 PM

Mike
As I recall, the barrels on some Mauser police banner Lugers are not serial numbered (page 146, Third Reich Lugers). See the listing of police banner lugers, a few lack a sn on barrel: http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...ce-Banner-Data
Jan

ekim99 · 01-04-2012, 12:48 AM

Let's take about one gun at a time. The first one is a Mauser Banner Police. It has the Police acceptance mark on the right side. It is the correct one with the "L", the pistol is dated 1941. The mark on the other side is just above the serial number, very close, it could be a Commercial Proof mark, the one with the "N" under it, it's very hard to tell. I have been using the "Standard Catalog of LUGER" by Aaroon Davis, as a reference guide. The pistol matches the description of Gun #149, in everything except it says the barrel should be serial numbered. The numbers 8.82 are there but no serial number. It has not been refinished, all of the numbers and marks are very sharp.
Mike

ekim99 · 01-04-2012, 01:04 AM

Further update, all three of the guns are Police Marked. One is dated 1941 the other are dated 1942. They are all as described in the previous posting. All three have two serial numbered clips each and two have serial numbered holsters. These came from the estate of a very serious collector.

Mike

Jan C Still · 01-04-2012, 03:17 AM

Mike
Based on comments and reviews, I could not recommend the "Standard Catalog of LUGER" by Aaroon Davis as a Luger reference book. Look at the Banner police list (http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...ce-Banner-Data) and make your own judgement
Jan

mrerick · 01-04-2012, 10:28 AM

Mike,

If the collector was involved with the online Luger community, you may find his pistols listed in some of the databases like the one Jan referred to. That helps establish provenance.

If you're valuing the pistols for insurance purposes, the retail values you'll find at the dealers I mentioned will get you into the ball park for replacement values.

Direct collector to collector transactions are at a lower price - after all a retail dealer has to make a profit to cover costs and operating profits. You can sometimes determine the direct sales values by looking at past auctions on GunBroker.com and some of the larger firearms auction houses.

This site and Jan's site both offer a "for sale" section where you can list firearms for sale with a stated offering price. You'll want to post good pictures for anything offered online.

It is very rare (in my experience) for local gun shops to have the correct knowledge about collectable Luger pistols, or for them to offer fair prices to buy them. The annually published "Blue Book" gun valuation guides are rarely of any help either.

There are members here that operate businesses and that can offer appraisals of collectable Lugers for a fee. Posting pictures here, you'll also get a range of opinions on collector values as well.

Marc

ekim99 · 01-04-2012, 01:26 PM

I am only trying to value the pistols so that they can be divided among the heirs, not for resale. I have found the "Standard Catalog of LUGER" very helpful. All the pistols I have inspected so far, that is around sixty, have matched descriptions in the book. This is the first inconsistency that I have found, about the Police serial numbered barrels. I have gone on the web to find Police Lugers for sale and have found a goodly number that do not have serial numbered barrels. So I would think that there is nothing wrong with these three.

Thanks for all your help.

Mikle

01-03-2012, 09:27 PM	#2
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Hi Mike, Welcome to the forum. Collectors value Lugers highly if they are as close to original manufactured state as possible. My military and commercial Lugers all have serial numbered barrels. I don't have my reference materials here to check and see if there were pistols normally manufactured without them. There are some very rare ones ("lunch box specials") that were made without proper markings. There may be others that were normally manufactured without barrels being numbered. As with most questions, pictures will help with identification and a detailed answer. Can you post some. Try taking them without using a flash in indirect light with a tripod to keep things steady and in focus. Many barrels were marked with a number that indicated the barrel gauge (measurement). Numbers like 8.82 ... Something in "good shape" may have been reworked or re-finished at some point. That often will reduce their value considerably. This isn't always the case (for example, Swiss Lugers that were reworked by the Swiss Arsenal when decommissioned). You can get an idea of the retail valuation of Lugers at sites like simpsonltd.com or checkpointcharlies.com ... Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

01-04-2012, 10:28 AM	#7
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Mike, If the collector was involved with the online Luger community, you may find his pistols listed in some of the databases like the one Jan referred to. That helps establish provenance. If you're valuing the pistols for insurance purposes, the retail values you'll find at the dealers I mentioned will get you into the ball park for replacement values. Direct collector to collector transactions are at a lower price - after all a retail dealer has to make a profit to cover costs and operating profits. You can sometimes determine the direct sales values by looking at past auctions on GunBroker.com and some of the larger firearms auction houses. This site and Jan's site both offer a "for sale" section where you can list firearms for sale with a stated offering price. You'll want to post good pictures for anything offered online. It is very rare (in my experience) for local gun shops to have the correct knowledge about collectable Luger pistols, or for them to offer fair prices to buy them. The annually published "Blue Book" gun valuation guides are rarely of any help either. There are members here that operate businesses and that can offer appraisals of collectable Lugers for a fee. Posting pictures here, you'll also get a range of opinions on collector values as well. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

01-03-2012, 08:21 PM	#1
ekim99 User Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Luger serial numbered barrels I am going through a 12 gun collection of luger's, inherited by a family friend, to value them. They are all in beautiful shape, very good to excellent. I have run in to a question on the serial numbers. Nine of the guns have all matching numbers, everywhere they should be, even the clips. But three of the guns have all matching numbers except the barrels, which have no number at all, except a very tiny, tiny number that looks like it would be a part number. Does that mean the barrels have been replaced, if so how does that affect the value? I would appreciate any input. Thank Mike

01-03-2012, 09:55 PM	#3
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	Mike As I recall, the barrels on some Mauser police banner Lugers are not serial numbered (page 146, Third Reich Lugers). See the listing of police banner lugers, a few lack a sn on barrel: http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...ce-Banner-Data Jan

01-04-2012, 12:48 AM	#4
ekim99 User Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Let's take about one gun at a time. The first one is a Mauser Banner Police. It has the Police acceptance mark on the right side. It is the correct one with the "L", the pistol is dated 1941. The mark on the other side is just above the serial number, very close, it could be a Commercial Proof mark, the one with the "N" under it, it's very hard to tell. I have been using the "Standard Catalog of LUGER" by Aaroon Davis, as a reference guide. The pistol matches the description of Gun #149, in everything except it says the barrel should be serial numbered. The numbers 8.82 are there but no serial number. It has not been refinished, all of the numbers and marks are very sharp. Mike

01-04-2012, 01:04 AM	#5
ekim99 User Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Further update, all three of the guns are Police Marked. One is dated 1941 the other are dated 1942. They are all as described in the previous posting. All three have two serial numbered clips each and two have serial numbered holsters. These came from the estate of a very serious collector. Mike

01-04-2012, 03:17 AM	#6
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	Mike Based on comments and reviews, I could not recommend the "Standard Catalog of LUGER" by Aaroon Davis as a Luger reference book. Look at the Banner police list (http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...ce-Banner-Data) and make your own judgement Jan

01-04-2012, 01:26 PM	#8
ekim99 User Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I am only trying to value the pistols so that they can be divided among the heirs, not for resale. I have found the "Standard Catalog of LUGER" very helpful. All the pistols I have inspected so far, that is around sixty, have matched descriptions in the book. This is the first inconsistency that I have found, about the Police serial numbered barrels. I have gone on the web to find Police Lugers for sale and have found a goodly number that do not have serial numbered barrels. So I would think that there is nothing wrong with these three. Thanks for all your help. Mikle