Barrel Marking on 1939 42 Luger

JohnMo · 01-17-2012, 08:03 PM

Hi Everyone,

I have a P08 that has a barrel with no s/n marking. The only marking on the barrel is on the top by the chamber, which is a round circle with a triangle inside the circle and the letter T inside the triangle.

The front sight on the left side has a + 3 stamped on it too.

No other markings on the barrel except above.

Anyone have a clue of this type of re barrel? Could this be a military field re barrel?

Thanks
John

mrerick · 01-17-2012, 08:28 PM

Hi, there is an old discussion here:

http://luger.gunboards.com/archive/i...p/t-23477.html

I believe that it might be the mark of a Bulgarian arsenal rework barrel replacement. Subsequent posts indicate it's Finnish.

Is your Luger one of the Russian Capture ("RC") Lugers that was recently imported?

Marc

JohnMo · 01-17-2012, 09:09 PM

Hi Marc,

It doesn't represent a Russian capture. It has not been re blued and no "x" marking.

All the s/n's match. 2 x e63 and eagle on right receiver. s/n 8098r.

mrerick · 01-18-2012, 10:29 AM

So... no import marks?

What are the rest of the markings on your Luger? The receiver would be a Mauser. What year?

Does the barrel witness mark line up exactly? A single stroke?

Pictures will, of course, help!

Marc

DavidJayUden · 01-18-2012, 10:59 AM

Sounds like a Finnish rework, Tikka barrel. But that is just a guess without pictures.
dju

JohnMo · 01-20-2012, 09:18 AM

1939 42 Mauser

OK, here are the barrel markings. I believe as you guys stated it looks like a Finnish Tikka re barrel.

This is my first Luger I got at a local auction. Let me know what you think. The hold open link and firing pin is also matching s/n.

Thanks in advance

John

gill120 · 01-20-2012, 09:54 AM

yup she a finn

pitsword · 01-20-2012, 04:22 PM

Nice Tikka. Good shooting.

JohnMo · 01-21-2012, 07:14 AM

From some research on the forum, my Luger does not appear to be a Finnish because there is no SA stamp.

1.When and why would you think this barrel got installed? Did the Germany army rebarrel it?

2.What caliber is the barrel?

3. What does the +3 stamping on the front sight mean.

4. How do i properly measure barrel length on a Luger?

Thanks in Advance,

John

DavidJayUden · 01-21-2012, 09:20 AM

J:
Really not my area, but I doubt that the Germans rebarreled it with the Tika bbl. but someone along the line thought that it needed a new barrel, tall front sight, and modified the rear sight. Sounds like a Finn. mod, as those are commonly seen on their surplus guns. But regardless, you have a very nice shooter.
Mrerick's link is also interesting in regards to the Bulgarian connection, but it suggests an earlier era.
And this is all speculation anyway. Maybe someone more experienced wiill voice a more learned opinion, but that will probably be conjecture too. Sometimes the answer is "I dunno".
The plus 3 probably means ithat it is several sizes taller than the std. sight. Cal. is either .30 Luger or 9mm. Does a No. 2 pencil eraser fit into the bore? Never tried it but I suppose length is measured from the frame to the tip of the muzzle.
dju

JohnMo · 01-21-2012, 11:21 AM

Yes, a no. 2 eraser fits into the muzzle very easily.

Balder · 01-21-2012, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnMo

3. What does the +3 stamping on the front sight mean.

John

This is the height of the front sight, in Europe this was done on many guns. 0 means no need for adjustment at the test firing distance (usually 25 meters for a pistol), then there will be - and + marked front sights to compensate. I have a ton of differently marked Krag-Jørgensen M/1912 carbine front sights if anybody should need one.

Balder

pitsword · 01-21-2012, 04:02 PM

Sorta off topic, not really. I have some very dear friends in Finland, new generation. Their Grandfathers served in the winter war and after. Amazing, sturdy, wonderful people. I live on a small farm and every day in the leg pocket of my bib coveralls is a Maartiini 4", plain jane sheath knife that was given to me. Best knife I ever carried and I collect.

One of my favorite rifles (in my favorite cal...7.62x54) is a 1943 Sako M-39 on 1895, non-scrubbed hex receiver. It is the most amazingly accurate, stock bolt gun I have ever owned. The Finns had the ability to take good things and make them Great. Your '39 S42 is an example. Best to you,
pitsword

jussi16 · 01-21-2012, 04:44 PM

A very clear finn luger. Not all of them had the "SA" stamp. But the barrel stamp is absolutely finnish.

jussi

MFC · 01-21-2012, 11:50 PM

A barrel is measured from the face of the breechblock to the muzzle. Just mearsure how far the pencil drops into the barrel.

JohnMo · 01-26-2012, 04:14 PM

Another thing about my Luger, the firing pin is grooved, the breech block has a 2 mm diameter hole drilled on the underside and the rear toggle sight blade has been modified to a "u" opening.

check out http://www.landofborchardt.com/finnishhandbook.html Which is the Finnish soldiers handbook for the M23.

In the book it states they rebarrel with Tikkakoski barrels, groove the firing pin and added a hole to the breech block, They also modified the original rear V notch sight block with a U notch to correspond with the rather wide, untapered barrel front sight blade.

So, with this in mind I am leaning towards my Luger being a Finn without the SA stamp. By the way, the SA stamping started in 1942 according to what I've been told.

However, maybe the 1939 42 Lugers came with the mods to the pin and breech block.

Anybody know?

MFC · 01-26-2012, 07:02 PM

A 1939 S/42 originally had a grooved firing pin but, not the hole in the beechblock. I've seen and heard of other Finnish Lugers with the hole added for gases to escape in case of a pierced primer.

JohnMo · 01-26-2012, 07:10 PM

Thanks, barrel measures 4".

alanint · 01-26-2012, 08:48 PM

Is your ejector broken or simply discolored near its front end??

sheepherder · 01-26-2012, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnMo

Yes, a no. 2 eraser fits into the muzzle very easily.

It's not just the eraser that will go into a 9mm barrel; it's the entire pencil...A 7.65 barrel will only allow the eraser, not the rest (like the metal that holds the eraser)...

I have a nice Tikkakoski barrel but it is the 4 3/4" x 9mm barrel...With the squarish front sight...(Mine is a '+1")...

I like it; I wish I had a nice Luger to put it on...

01-17-2012, 08:03 PM	#1
JohnMo User Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Pittsburgh PA Posts: 39 Thanks: 8 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Barrel Marking on 1939 42 Luger Hi Everyone, I have a P08 that has a barrel with no s/n marking. The only marking on the barrel is on the top by the chamber, which is a round circle with a triangle inside the circle and the letter T inside the triangle. The front sight on the left side has a + 3 stamped on it too. No other markings on the barrel except above. Anyone have a clue of this type of re barrel? Could this be a military field re barrel? Thanks John

01-17-2012, 08:28 PM	#2
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Hi, there is an old discussion here: http://luger.gunboards.com/archive/i...p/t-23477.html I believe that it might be the mark of a Bulgarian arsenal rework barrel replacement. Subsequent posts indicate it's Finnish. Is your Luger one of the Russian Capture ("RC") Lugers that was recently imported? Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

01-18-2012, 10:29 AM	#4
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	So... no import marks? What are the rest of the markings on your Luger? The receiver would be a Mauser. What year? Does the barrel witness mark line up exactly? A single stroke? Pictures will, of course, help! Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

01-20-2012, 09:18 AM	#6
JohnMo User Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Pittsburgh PA Posts: 39 Thanks: 8 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	1939 42 Mauser images of luger 1939 42 Mauser OK, here are the barrel markings. I believe as you guys stated it looks like a Finnish Tikka re barrel. This is my first Luger I got at a local auction. Let me know what you think. The hold open link and firing pin is also matching s/n. Thanks in advance John Attached Thumbnails

01-21-2012, 07:14 AM	#9
JohnMo User Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Pittsburgh PA Posts: 39 Thanks: 8 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	From some research on the forum, my Luger does not appear to be a Finnish because there is no SA stamp. 1.When and why would you think this barrel got installed? Did the Germany army rebarrel it? 2.What caliber is the barrel? 3. What does the +3 stamping on the front sight mean. 4. How do i properly measure barrel length on a Luger? Thanks in Advance, John Last edited by JohnMo; 01-21-2012 at 08:25 AM.

01-17-2012, 09:09 PM	#3
JohnMo User Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Pittsburgh PA Posts: 39 Thanks: 8 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Hi Marc, It doesn't represent a Russian capture. It has not been re blued and no "x" marking. All the s/n's match. 2 x e63 and eagle on right receiver. s/n 8098r.

01-18-2012, 10:59 AM	#5
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Sounds like a Finnish rework, Tikka barrel. But that is just a guess without pictures. dju

01-20-2012, 09:54 AM	#7
gill120 User Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 95 Thanks: 1 Thanked 18 Times in 11 Posts	yup she a finn

01-20-2012, 04:22 PM	#8
pitsword User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 454 Thanks: 3,884 Thanked 101 Times in 81 Posts	Nice Tikka. Good shooting.

01-21-2012, 09:20 AM	#10
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	J: Really not my area, but I doubt that the Germans rebarreled it with the Tika bbl. but someone along the line thought that it needed a new barrel, tall front sight, and modified the rear sight. Sounds like a Finn. mod, as those are commonly seen on their surplus guns. But regardless, you have a very nice shooter. Mrerick's link is also interesting in regards to the Bulgarian connection, but it suggests an earlier era. And this is all speculation anyway. Maybe someone more experienced wiill voice a more learned opinion, but that will probably be conjecture too. Sometimes the answer is "I dunno". The plus 3 probably means ithat it is several sizes taller than the std. sight. Cal. is either .30 Luger or 9mm. Does a No. 2 pencil eraser fit into the bore? Never tried it but I suppose length is measured from the frame to the tip of the muzzle. dju

01-21-2012, 11:21 AM	#11
JohnMo User Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Pittsburgh PA Posts: 39 Thanks: 8 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Yes, a no. 2 eraser fits into the muzzle very easily.

01-21-2012, 04:02 PM	#13
pitsword User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 454 Thanks: 3,884 Thanked 101 Times in 81 Posts	Sorta off topic, not really. I have some very dear friends in Finland, new generation. Their Grandfathers served in the winter war and after. Amazing, sturdy, wonderful people. I live on a small farm and every day in the leg pocket of my bib coveralls is a Maartiini 4", plain jane sheath knife that was given to me. Best knife I ever carried and I collect. One of my favorite rifles (in my favorite cal...7.62x54) is a 1943 Sako M-39 on 1895, non-scrubbed hex receiver. It is the most amazingly accurate, stock bolt gun I have ever owned. The Finns had the ability to take good things and make them Great. Your '39 S42 is an example. Best to you, pitsword

01-21-2012, 04:44 PM	#14
jussi16 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Finland Posts: 250 Thanks: 77 Thanked 51 Times in 31 Posts	A very clear finn luger. Not all of them had the "SA" stamp. But the barrel stamp is absolutely finnish. jussi

01-21-2012, 11:50 PM	#15
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	A barrel is measured from the face of the breechblock to the muzzle. Just mearsure how far the pencil drops into the barrel. __________________ Mike C.

01-26-2012, 04:14 PM	#16
JohnMo User Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Pittsburgh PA Posts: 39 Thanks: 8 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Another thing about my Luger, the firing pin is grooved, the breech block has a 2 mm diameter hole drilled on the underside and the rear toggle sight blade has been modified to a "u" opening. check out http://www.landofborchardt.com/finnishhandbook.html Which is the Finnish soldiers handbook for the M23. In the book it states they rebarrel with Tikkakoski barrels, groove the firing pin and added a hole to the breech block, They also modified the original rear V notch sight block with a U notch to correspond with the rather wide, untapered barrel front sight blade. So, with this in mind I am leaning towards my Luger being a Finn without the SA stamp. By the way, the SA stamping started in 1942 according to what I've been told. However, maybe the 1939 42 Lugers came with the mods to the pin and breech block. Anybody know? Last edited by JohnMo; 01-26-2012 at 07:09 PM.

01-26-2012, 07:02 PM	#17
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	A 1939 S/42 originally had a grooved firing pin but, not the hole in the beechblock. I've seen and heard of other Finnish Lugers with the hole added for gases to escape in case of a pierced primer. __________________ Mike C.

01-26-2012, 07:10 PM	#18
JohnMo User Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Pittsburgh PA Posts: 39 Thanks: 8 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks, barrel measures 4".

01-26-2012, 08:48 PM	#19
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Is your ejector broken or simply discolored near its front end??