Seeking info on Luger

[H.P.197]

My father also brought home a Luger from WWII. It has quietly resided in his old house for 65 years and now it's time it moves on. As I have always loved this gun I will probably keep it but will need to know it's value in order to settle things. From reading the other posts I understand all #'s need to identified in order to get a real value.

At this time I don't know if the #'s match but for the sake of argument will assume they are. I do know that "H. P. 197" is stamped onto the gun is two places and also onto the Holster. The numbers "7224" are stamped on the barrel and the magazine.

I have these two photos of the gun, not great but after reading the other posts I couldn't wait till I got any better ones.

I guess I need to know what is the best way to find the guns worth and also does anybody know what the stampings mean?

Thanks for your time. Bruce

[Don M]

Bruce, welcome to the forum and congratulations on having a very nice family heirloom.

The markings H.P.197. on the front grip strap and right side of the receiver indicate this was Luger #197 of the Hessische Polizei, the Weimar-era state police of Hessen. The number 7224 is part of the serial number of the gun. There is very probably a lower-case script "u" beneath this number on the front of the frame. If so, the full serial number is 7224u and it was manufactured by DWM/BKIW in 1929, just before they transferred all their Luger manufacturing equipment to Mauser in early 1930.

I can't tell if you have one or two magazines with this rig. It is likely that they are also marked H.P.197. on their spines. The takedown tool in the small pouch inside the cover of the holster may also be similarly marked.

It appears you may have a complete matching rig which is very, very desirable.

I will let others weigh in on value since this is not my area of expertise. However, one issue you will encounter is the fact that the stock lug on the rear grip strap has been ground off. To many collectors, this will be a strong negative because they believe this was done by someone here in the US who misinterpreted Federal gun laws. I am convinced that the stock lugs were removed from these guns either before or just after delivery at the insistence of French forces occupying parts of Hesse and that it is a true Luger variation. This is explained in much greater detail in Chapter 16 of my book, History Writ in Steel as well as several posts on this and Jan Still's forums. Nevertheless, long-held opinions change slowly and this will detract from your rig's value in many collectors' minds.

[H.P.197]

Thanks Don, if I could figure out how to give you a thank you officially I would.

Just spent an hour trying to figure out what the stock lug attachment was, found a few pictures of guns with it on but not that many.

And you are correct in your belief that the alteration was done overseas. The gun hasn't moved more than 25 feet since it returned from Europe in 1945. I find the history fascinating and will read into it further, your book seems like a good starting point.

As far as it's value diminishing due to the missing lug, nothing I can do about that, but I'll defend the gun's history (not altered here due to US regulations) till my end.

[mrerick]

Hi Bruce and welcome to the forum!

Looks like a very desirable Police rig.

You can get an idea of retail values by looking at Simpson Ltd's website and at sites like FGS Firearms and check point charlies.

Simpson Ltd

FGS Firearms

Check Point Charlies

Look for similar Police Luger rigs.

You will need to determine if it is all matching, and the numbers on the magazines.

Marc

[Don M]

Bruce, Marc's suggestions are quite good although I very much doubt that you will find another complete H.P. rig. Simpson Ltd has one of these H.P. Lugers with a single matching magazine for $2250 (http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...88dfac46f96ba1). Prices from retail sellers are good for insurance purposes but are higher than you would likely realize if selling. On the other hand, you appear to have a complete matching rig which should go for much more than the Simpson gun.

I suggest that you post more photos and more information about the rig for two reasons. One, you should get more accurate value information from forum members and, two, I and others would love to see more. Additional photos that would be helpful include the top of the gun, close-ups of the left and right sides of the receiver (where the crown/N proof and second unit mark are), the front of frame with serial number, the stock lug area, the bases and spines of the magazine(s), the front grip strap marking and the back of the holster with the maker's mark.