barrel replacement

[tmmcnay@hotmail.com]

I have a 1917 Luger 9mm with all matching serial numbers. It has a slightly pitted barrel that I want to replace so I can use the gun as a shooter. I bought the AGI video on the Luger but the info in that video says that special tools are needed to replace a barrel. For this reason I'm thinking it best to buy a new barrel and receiver to avoid any damage to the original barrel/receiver which I will put in preservative and store. So here is where I need help: who supplies parts for the Luger and what tools are necessary to mate the barrel to the receiver so the sights line up?

[rivieraranch]

From all I have read here, a slightly pitted barrel will shoot just fine. There may be no need to go bananas replacing the barrel or buying a barrel/receiver combo, which would be big $.

[FNorm]

If it is only slightly pitted I'd keep it. But... Clean it good, use a brush and a good solvent. I like Butch's Bore Shine. Then go to the range, and break it in as you would a new rifle barrel. Shoot, swab, shoot, swab for 5-10 rounds. Then use the brush again. Repeat as necessary. 2-3 times should do it.

FN

[nukem556]

Norm is a very wise man, because he agrees with me! heh....Butch's is my favorite solvent too....you may also have some good luck with JB Bore Paste...it's a very, very mild abrasive and will clean and polish the bore better than anything....don't be alarmed by the "abrasive" label...it's used by competition shooters every few hundred rounds in their high-dollar match grade barrels.

[tmmcnay@hotmail.com]

Thank all for your ideas on brand name cleaners,etc. I know 2 long term pistol smiths and I will have them look at the bore to see if my assessment of "slightly pitted" is correct and go from there.

[John Sabato]

Accuracy is the the only test of whether or not your barrel needs to be replaced. I have seen Luger bores that looked like the inside of a sewer pipe that would print clover leaf bullet patterns in the X ring if you do your part. The design is inherently accurate, and a little pitting should not be a problem.

Shoot it... test it, and then decide if you need to change the barrel. I think your Luger may surprise you...

If you decide to replace the barrel/receiver... contact member LugerDoc...

Welcome to the Lugerforum.

[FNorm]

Couple of cautions: First clean under the extractor really well. You'll be surprised at the grime under there. Second feed only from a magazine, do not do single cartridge inserts into the chamber.

FN

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by tmmcnay@hotmail.com

I have a 1917 Luger 9mm with...a slightly pitted barrel that I want to replace...what tools are necessary...?

Originally Posted by John Sabato

If you decide to replace the barrel/receiver... contact member LugerDoc...

John's advice is probably your best bet...The special tools can be expensive...and the learning curve can be steep...Tom Heller [LugerDoc] has all the tools and fixtures necessary to swap out barrels...

But since you asked...

Here's a quick & dirty guide to barrel swapping...

We get at least one post a month asking about swapping Luger barrels...I have a receiver with a 4 3/4" Tikkakoski barrel on it, I want to swap in a 5 7/8" barrel...here's what I use to do it...

- Barrel vise
- barrel wrench
- Receiver block [brass]
- Squib rod [brass]
- Receiver shield [brass sheet]
- Receiver/block bolt
- 3/4" wrenches



I clamp the barrel in the vise with the squib rod inserted up to the breech face. Barrel has a turn of masking tape so the finish doesn't get scratched. Squib rod keeps the barrel from collapsing from the pressure of the vise. Receiver block is installed with bolt. The block keeps the receiver from twisting while unscrewing. Brass shield draped over receiver to prevent scratching, wrench is attached.



Receiver is unscrewed. One sharp smack with my hand on the wrench usually breaks it free.





5 7/8" barrel ready to go in. All threads cleaned. Threads get a light coating of grease. Masking tape on barrel again.



Receiver is screwed in until it won't go any further. It has ~1/8 turn until the barrel/front sight is perpendicular with the receiver. Just right.



Receiver block installed again, wrench attached with brass shield. Receiver tightened until it is perpendicular with front sight.



Everything taken apart. New barrel installed & ready to go.



I use a special fixture that clamps to the front sight base to attach a spirit level (not shown), and another spirit level laid across the receiver to get the barrel and receiver perpendicular. Here's a pic of an artillery barrel being leveled/installed using the spirit levels (but not the front sight fixture).



Some slight tweaking may be necessary to get the F&R sights aligned after leveling/installing.

That's it. I spend about an hour doing the whole job, including cleaning. There are other ways to swap barrels, but this way works for me.

[G.T.]

Rich, you are a star! Great presentation....... best to you, til...lat'r...GT

[Thor]

One thing to remember when you swap out a barrel, make SURE and I said SURE you check the chamber/breechblock spacing to be sure it is in spec. A GO/NO GO check is warrented to make sure you dont have excessive head space and that also it will chamber properly, I know a few instances where a ring of metal was milled off to get a proper fit and sometimes the chamber will have to be rereamed. Never hurts to check the chamber spec before you shoot it. John Sabato is right, I have also seen rough barrels shoot like a match barrel, I would shoot it first to be sure you want to do this. Good shooting and be safe.

[lfid]

Rich,

awesome presentation !!! verrrrry cool

retiring soon and I have several projects in mind

where do we buy the kit to do the rebarrels ? kind of kidding - but is there a source for tools that are correct ?

are the barrel vise bushings tapered ?

do the squibb rods fit like friction fit or more loosely ?

my interest is in the target / custom lugers so dont care much about the old barrel except possible resale / reuse

have you had cases that required heating with torch , grinding away the old barrel flange to release pressure , rusted threads , other heroics etc ?

do the later mauser ww2 , and the 1970s mauser parabellums seem to be less likely to need the heroics ?

thanks
Bill

[Vlim]

I copied postino's post to a separate thread and made it a sticky.
Good and clear reference material!

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by lfid

where do we buy the kit to do the rebarrels ? kind of kidding - but is there a source for tools that are correct ?

are the barrel vise bushings tapered ?

do the squibb rods fit like friction fit or more loosely ?

have you had cases that required heating with torch , grinding away the old barrel flange to release pressure , rusted threads , other heroics etc ?

There is a guy on eBay who sells the vise & wrench; bushings are tapered; squib rods are a sliding fit in a new barrel, for older ones, Travers sells ground steel rods slightly oversize; some barrels require a thin ring to clock correctly, some require metal to be removed (I use a lathe).

Originally Posted by Rick W.

Some ideas were presented that I had not seen on a web before. Kinda like the receiver block, did that idea come from Martinis? Not too sure for myself about the rod down the bore, but sure cannot hurt.

Some like a little rosin on top of the tape, and the metal surfaces previously gone over with some acetone, I am sure you just forgot to mention those.

The comment on headspace is revelent to me.

The use of spirit levels renews my interest in such.

Receiver block idea came from my work with AR-15's/M16's; the rod down the bore is a must (for me anyway) as I have crushed a barrel [sob!] without one; I haven't needed rosin but it's a good idea (I don't have any); I use lacquer thinner to remove the tape residue; I didn't get into headspace because everyone has their own idea as to what is the correct headspace - if you like GO-NO GO gauges then they are very handy. I have several popular finish chamber cutting reamers so I can adjust headspace as needed. The spirit level is a quick & dirty way to index the barrel; you can't really see the sight alignment while it's in the vise. Here's a pic of the front sight base fixture I use on Lugers (it also doubles as a Mauser M1896 lathe center, for turning replacement barrels on Broomhandles)...



(Note the oblong shape of the bore...this is the crushed barrel from not using a squib rod)...

Here's the same tool in a Mauser receiver...for turning between centers...



Here's a pic of some mandrels and sleeves used for turning Luger/Lahti barrels, Mauser receivers, etc...



And here is why I have time this weekend to take pics & swap barrels...

[sheepherder]

And here's a Q&D setup of the two spirit levels, front sight tool, and receiver block in action...



In actual use, the levels would be secured with a rubber band to keep from falling off...I left the wrench off for clarity...

[Lugerdoc]

Super presentation. TH

[Ron Wood]

A great photo essay, and clear evidence that barrel exchange is not a bubba's basement project. It needs to be left to the folks that know what they are doing and have the necessary tools.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

A great photo essay, and clear evidence that barrel exchange is not a bubba's basement project. It needs to be left to the folks that know what they are doing and have the necessary tools.

I would, Ron, but there's nobody near me that does stuff like this...

[Ron Wood]

Yeah, right!!...

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

A great photo essay, and clear evidence that barrel exchange is not a bubba's basement project. It needs to be left to the folks that know what they are doing and have the necessary tools.

Ron:

If you want a good laugh, check out one of the mid-thirties' Stoger catalogues in which they sell the various length barrels and "instruct" the buyers just how to change them out. The first step, if I recall, is freezing your Luger so that the threads will loosen up.

Really, you will have a good laugh!

Sieger

[John Sabato]

A great presentation. Leaves nothing to the imagination...